Class win

[Michael Beard]

I agree. The FWD cars have sticks and autos combined, plus a big jump in weight breaks between classes. I don't see why a number of classes couldn't go to full pound weight breaks. That would reduce some of the class hopping, create a better show w/ more cars per class, and reduce the number of Class winners that they have to pay and give trophies to. It would also help in factoring cars -- If two classes have the same Index, why shouldn't they run heads up? -- mis-factored combos would make themselves more apparent.

So, instead of penalizing racers for singles, create more heads-up racing. This would effect not only Class, but also the Eliminator.

[Herbie Null]

Michael Beard, you just hit the nail on the head!!

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

I agree. The FWD cars have sticks and autos combined, plus a big jump in weight breaks between classes. I don't see why a number of classes couldn't go to full pound weight breaks. That would reduce some of the class hopping, create a better show w/ more cars per class, and reduce the number of Class winners that they have to pay and give trophies to. It would also help in factoring cars -- If two classes have the same Index, why shouldn't they run heads up? -- mis-factored combos would make themselves more apparent.

So, instead of penalizing racers for singles, create more heads-up racing. This would effect not only Class, but also the Eliminator.

Damn....I said this and you guys jumped down my throat. By the way.....the crate motored classes are combined stick and automatic. The "Pure Stock" classes are 1 pound breaks in IHRA 8 thru 16 pounds per. Ive never seen a stick shift crate motored car run before I retired.

[Michael Beard]

Thanks Herbie... I sometimes wonder if I'm on everyone's ignore list. Why does it take a bracket racer to advocate more heads up racing while many "class racers" run the other way?

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Damn....I said this and you guys jumped down my throat. By the way.....the crate motored classes are combined stick and automatic. The "Pure Stock" classes are 1 pound breaks in IHRA 8 thru 16 pounds per. Ive never seen a stick shift crate motored car run before I retired.

I was going to mention that, but you know how some people just tune out as soon as you mention IHRA. :-/ I believe Lindell Hilling ran a stick in his black '55 Chevy crate motor car for a short time when he first brought it out.

You're always going to have dissenting views. You need to do the best of your ability with the knowledge you have, while keeping an open mind.

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

Bobby, do you have the white Mustang? Jim

No, the red one in the pic behind us. My dad is on the left, I'm center, my uncle is on the right.

[Mike Carr]

Some of us didn't have a choice in what we race. When I started racing Stock in 2001, Billy Nees gave me an HF/SA Sunbird to race. At the time, there were quite a few HF/SA's around. Most of which were on the east coast or midwest. Yet three years in a row at Indy, I was the only one to show up (Indy 2002 and 2003 were the only Nat'ls I ran with that car, and wanted to run). Now, am I to be penalized because no one else showed up? Or should I have told Billy to "build me something to race in a class in which we know there will be x-amount of cars in it"? Some people get enjoyment out of taking on the challenge of taking a unique car and getting the most they can out of it. Billy, Bob Shaw, Mark Yacavone, among others, come to mind. I seriously doubt these gentlemen are building an odd car to "duck" a heads up run. As fast as they are, they'd win anyways. Is it fair to punish a racer for thinking outside the box? Or because they don't have a B/SA 396 Camaro or Chevy SS/GT car or some other belly-button cookie-cutter combination, we should just kick 'em out.

NHRA has done a good job of eliminating classes in Stock. We're down to 53 classes total now. Super Stock has 92(!). While that may be too many classes, and there are ways to go about trimming some down, each has a drawback. 1 pound classes = a lot of weight to adjust for the higher-hp cars. Imagine if you made the new classes SS/A = 6.00-6.99; SS/B = 7.00-7.99. A '64-'65 Hemi wanting to switch classes and/or to set a record would have to add/subtract 500 pounds to move classes. When only 100 is legally permitted to be removed. Stick + automatics might seem the simplest, though there could be potential headaches in attempting to keep a level playing field. Either with HP, weight breaks or both. If I were voting, I guess I would go with Stick + Auto. Eight classes could be easily eliminated by combining Modified Truck and GT Truck into their corresponding Car classes (SS/AS and SS/TA would be in the same class. You could give a weight break to the Trucks). I enjoy watching Class Eliminations and heads-up racing. The three years I raced at Indy, I was first pair down in Class every year, so I could get through fuel, weight and contigency, to hurry back and watch the remaining racing. Whil I am all for more heads-up and bringing back performance to performance based Eliminators, I just wouldn't want to see a knee-jerk reaction by anyone (NHRA, racers, etc) to make a rule change that could obsolete a lot of good race cars.

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

This is the point I was trying to make. If he wanted to win class, he would have built a class car to compete to race other cars, if you chose to build a car that has no one in a class thats your choice. You can still bracket race in the Eliminator, you wont even have a heads up run on race day. Just dont complain about a class WALLY. we wont our cake and eat it too. lol

Herbie, first off I remember you from when I was a kid and you are a very good racer!

However, I strongly disagree with what you are saying here. You want us to not win class because no one else is in our class? He runs V/SA, no one else would dare to run that class so why not have him win class? If someone doesn't like that then they should go build a V/SA car and compete against him. Like I said earlier I'm usually the only SS/L car when I'm out there, so what's wrong with my getting the bye run? No one wants to build an SS/L car because first off no one wants a stick car for obvious reasons of consistency, parts abuse, etc. and second it's a tough combination to work with (Believe me I'm pulling my hair out most of the time). Kip Martin has perfected it, I have not.

I know you said in the old days you would run, go home, and work on your stuff.. That sounds cool and I wish I was around back then but I have a feeling back then it was within alot more of average racers' means to keep going home and working on a combo. Am I supposed to sell my car and build a typical chevy or mopar that runs a particular class, simply because everyone else does? Kinda goes back to "If Johnny jumps off a bridge would you?" That would kill any diversity left in Class Racing.

[Herbie Null]

No one ever said class racing was easy, all i was trying to say is that 20 or more solo passes for class is a joke. Do you think they like just giving out Wally's and class money for nothing. Class payouts have all but gone, who wants to hand out money just because the guy showed up at the race. Most class racers will understand what I am saying. It does not matter what you say on this site, you will offend someone and I am sorry this offended you. We can't complain if we do not try to change, the way it has been going is not working. What do you suggest to help class racing survive in the future. We all cant just make solo passes and win class

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

Class payouts have all but gone, who wants to hand out money just because the guy showed up at the race.

Herbie, I'm not sure I follow your thinking, so help me out here.

A racer goes all over to gain the necisary six grade points to be able to compete at Indy. They pay their $300 entry, take their vacation time, show up, race, make their Class Run, win their class, run quick enough, meet all the requirements (ET, weight, fuel, teardown, etc) and are declared Class Winner. Now, just because no one else could/would bother to do the same, that person should be denied their Class Win, even though they met all of NHRA's requrements to do so? because no one else showed up?

Am I missing something here? Should I have paid the entry for the other dozen or so HF/SA's to come race? Should I have talked to their bosses to give them the time off? Should I have tried to raise money to have a shootout to attract more participation? Paid their expenses? Should I have told Billy to build me another car to drive? Should I have borrowed a car for Indy, one that ran in a Class with three or more cars in it? I did all that I could do, and that NHRA required me to do, for me to be a Class Winner. I shouldn't be penalized for circumstances beyone my control (no one else showing up). If you went to Indy, and all the GT/BA racers had entered into the GT/AA Shootout and you were all alone in GT/BA, should NHRA take your Class money and Class Wally away and say "Sorry Herbie, you were a bye run, no Class Win for you. So long, and thanks for coming". I'f I'm missing something, please fill me in.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Herbie, I'm not sure I follow your thinking, so help me out here.

A racer goes all over to gain the necisary six grade points to be able to compete at Indy. They pay their $300 entry, take their vacation time, show up, race, make their Class Run, win their class, run quick enough, meet all the requirements (ET, weight, fuel, teardown, etc) and are declared Class Winner. Now, just because no one else could/would bother to do the same, that person should be denied their Class Win, even though they met all of NHRA's requrements to do so? because no one else showed up?

Am I missing something here? Should I have paid the entry for the other dozen or so HF/SA's to come race? Should I have talked to their bosses to give them the time off? Should I have tried to raise money to have a shootout to attract more participation? Paid their expenses? Should I have told Billy to build me another car to drive? Should I have borrowed a car for Indy, one that ran in a Class with three or more cars in it? I did all that I could do, and that NHRA required me to do, for me to be a Class Winner. I shouldn't be penalized for circumstances beyone my control (no one else showing up). If you went to Indy, and all the GT/BA racers had entered into the GT/AA Shootout and you were all alone in GT/BA, should NHRA take your Class money and Class Wally away and say "Sorry Herbie, you were a bye run, no Class Win for you. So long, and thanks for coming". I'f I'm missing something, please fill me in.

I'm one of the cars in a sparsly entered class.I am usually the only T/SA car here in Div. 1.
There is another one,but the owners choose not to run the car at national events.Is that my fault.I am capable of going 1.00 under at both national events here in Div 1 if I have to.So
why shouldn't I claim the Wally and the paultry $150 I get from contingencies?If I had a larger budget maybe I would build a higher class car,maybe not.I've heard grumbling from some not happy being beat by a "lower" class car.I love it.