Class win

Herbie Null · 12-26-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Herbie, I get what you're saying. No Class Wins for single car entries. All I want to know is why? You and I went through all the same steps to get to the same point. Because you beat someone and I didn't, I get nothing. I just would like to know your reasoning for this opinion?

To try and do something that will bring back class racing, manufactures are not going to sit at INDY and watch all the class singels and say next year I think I'll up the purse on class. Instead they say I am droping this S...T. Thats all I am trying to say.

Mark Yacavone · 12-26-2009, 03:27 PM

Herbie, I 'm sure you know; there were a lot of evolutionary changes that got us to where we are today. Maybe a few step backward would fix some of these problems.

For the sake of discussion, would you be in favor of Class Winners only in eliminations?
That would certainly fill some of the mid to lower classes, thus fewer and fewer single runs.

art leong · 12-26-2009, 05:37 PM

Been on both sides of this fence.
In the early years.We ran a B/SA car never lost a class run Usually 3 to 5 cars in the class, if you lost you went home, no qualifiers.
Now I have an Oddball car There are only 2 others in the country. I built the car I have because I don't want to get involved with who can cheat the most and not get caught. It is pounds per cube, I can do anything to the motor I want. They just check cubic inches, wheelbase, and overhang. and I'm on my way.
I suspect most if not all of the highly contested class cars could be sent home if a rule here or there was enforced. I am not accusing anyone. Just stating my feelings. When in Rome you have to speak Italian or you don't get the pizza.
If you don't have to battle someone it costs a lot less money. And I guess thats what people don't like.

Myron Piatek · 12-26-2009, 10:43 PM

Just a thought from a "bystander".......but does anybody really think that NHRA expected all the Stock and SS classes that they made accomodations for were going to have 2 or more vehicles in them? At least back then it was equal opportunity for all. Now they are cutting back, cutting out or just plain making it difficult for for racers to fill the classes through their "enhancements"!

Ed Fernandez · 12-26-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

To try and do something that will bring back class racing, manufactures are not going to sit at INDY and watch all the class singels and say next year I think I'll up the purse on class. Instead they say I am droping this S...T. Thats all I am trying to say.

When are people going to face the fact that we aren't in a car culture anymore.The factories,for all intents and purposes are gone as far as providing affordable new cars,the kids don't give a ***** about our cars,the sponsors are fighting just to stay in business selling parts and the "fans" are a throw back to the Roman Colosseum days of wanting to see blood and guts.I won't even go into the sanctioning associations or the
segment of racers looking out for their interests.
Let's face it,when we lose the interest to go out for a weekend and be with our racing friends and making new ones,we just might as well turn our cars into show cars and sit on a beach chair with liquid refreshment and dream of what was.
BTW Herbie you said yourself you've jumped classes to get an easy class win.What's the problem with someone like me who stays in his class and has no one to join him?
Here it is: Quote: I have even done this myself, it did not feel real good holding my little WALLY.
If you felt that bad then why did you do it?You also could have done a Marlon Brando and refused
to accept it,and the $$$.

Herbie Null · 12-27-2009, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

When are people going to face the fact that we aren't in a car culture anymore.The factories,for all intents and purposes are gone as far as providing affordable new cars,the kids don't give a ***** about our cars,the sponsors are fighting just to stay in business selling parts and the "fans" are a throw back to the Roman Colosseum days of wanting to see blood and guts.I won't even go into the sanctioning associations or the
segment of racers looking out for their interests.
Let's face it,when we lose the interest to go out for a weekend and be with our racing friends and making new ones,we just might as well turn our cars into show cars and sit on a beach chair with liquid refreshment and dream of what was.
BTW Herbie you said yourself you've jumped classes to get an easy class win.What's the problem with someone like me who stays in his class and has no one to join him?
Here it is: Quote: I have even done this myself, it did not feel real good holding my little WALLY.
If you felt that bad then why did you do it?You also could have done a Marlon Brando and refused
to accept it,and the $$$.

Ed, paint your car yellow and try to get cab fair. just forget aboutit...Ed you can Quote that

Michael Beard · 12-27-2009, 10:46 AM

Mike, I understand about the problems with full pound wt breaks w/ high HP cars, which is why my suggestion was full pound for *some*. It's not .5-lb breaks top to bottom even now. I have one of "those" combos... 200lb heavy for its natural class, over 500lb light for the next class. The upper and lower ends of the spectrum can't be moved, understandably, but the wt breaks can be spread more as you move down the list. They just went wacky when they did the FWD breaks.

Sticks and autos: compare indexes, wt break if necessary. If class breaks are equal, no reason to not combine them. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if sticks ended up w/ a tiny advantage... incentive to see more built.

RE: "everyone will only race 'the' killer combo" -- 1) Combos are still subject to factoring, 2) Most people build cars they LIKE and/or can afford, period. Otherwise, you'd already have 128 new Cobra Jets in the field. (And if you had 128 CJ's, refer to point #1.)

PS - typing on a Blackberry sucks. This is how much I love you guys.

LOL

Billy Nees · 12-27-2009, 12:17 PM

How about this,
In SS, SS/ Mod cars to comp, cars and trucks run same class, SS and GT run same class,GTs have wt penalty, GT fwds have extra penalty. All Natl. Events run class, Class Winner is automatically in, 96 car field of Class Winners and fastest non winners.
In Stock, All Natl. Events run class, same as above.
At every race, minimum of 12 cars per eliminator to be torn down (rain or not) numbers are drawn out of a hat. DQ is minimum 1year off and offending parts are voluntarily surrendered, marked and destroyed.
That ought to piss some people off.
(Terry should like this one)

X-TECH MAN · 12-27-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

How about this,
In SS, SS/ Mod cars to comp, cars and trucks run same class, SS and GT run same class,GTs have wt penalty, GT fwds have extra penalty. All Natl. Events run class, Class Winner is automatically in, 96 car field of Class Winners and fastest non winners.
In Stock, All Natl. Events run class, same as above.
At every race, minimum of 12 cars per eliminator to be torn down (rain or not) numbers are drawn out of a hat. DQ is minimum 1year off and offending parts are voluntarily surrendered, marked and destroyed.
That ought to piss some people off.
(Terry should like this one)

Yepper.....It would bring some integrity back into the joke we now have.

Dick Butler · 12-27-2009, 03:05 PM

It would bring back fans to watch CLASS Stk and SS again also because by combining all the classes down to many fewer there would ALWAYS be enough cars entered to make some rounds of class.
Currently too many classes divided into ??? racers and of the 80 cars allowed in the gate chances of BYES Way above chances of 5 or 6 in a class...
I suggest 1 lb breaks also , stick and auto together with wt break for auto is suggestion.

12-26-2009, 03:27 PM	#2
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,828 Likes: 2,920 Liked 5,137 Times in 1,960 Posts	Re: Class win Herbie, I 'm sure you know; there were a lot of evolutionary changes that got us to where we are today. Maybe a few step backward would fix some of these problems. For the sake of discussion, would you be in favor of Class Winners only in eliminations? That would certainly fill some of the mid to lower classes, thus fewer and fewer single runs. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

12-26-2009, 05:37 PM	#3
art leong VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Richmond Hill, Georgia Posts: 2,003 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Class win Been on both sides of this fence. In the early years.We ran a B/SA car never lost a class run Usually 3 to 5 cars in the class, if you lost you went home, no qualifiers. Now I have an Oddball car There are only 2 others in the country. I built the car I have because I don't want to get involved with who can cheat the most and not get caught. It is pounds per cube, I can do anything to the motor I want. They just check cubic inches, wheelbase, and overhang. and I'm on my way. I suspect most if not all of the highly contested class cars could be sent home if a rule here or there was enforced. I am not accusing anyone. Just stating my feelings. When in Rome you have to speak Italian or you don't get the pizza. If you don't have to battle someone it costs a lot less money. And I guess thats what people don't like. __________________ Art Leong 2095 SS

12-26-2009, 10:43 PM	#4
Myron Piatek VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,542 Likes: 34 Liked 138 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Class win Just a thought from a "bystander".......but does anybody really think that NHRA expected all the Stock and SS classes that they made accomodations for were going to have 2 or more vehicles in them? At least back then it was equal opportunity for all. Now they are cutting back, cutting out or just plain making it difficult for for racers to fill the classes through their "enhancements"! Last edited by Myron Piatek; 12-26-2009 at 10:46 PM.

12-27-2009, 10:46 AM	#7
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Class win Mike, I understand about the problems with full pound wt breaks w/ high HP cars, which is why my suggestion was full pound for some. It's not .5-lb breaks top to bottom even now. I have one of "those" combos... 200lb heavy for its natural class, over 500lb light for the next class. The upper and lower ends of the spectrum can't be moved, understandably, but the wt breaks can be spread more as you move down the list. They just went wacky when they did the FWD breaks. Sticks and autos: compare indexes, wt break if necessary. If class breaks are equal, no reason to not combine them. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if sticks ended up w/ a tiny advantage... incentive to see more built. RE: "everyone will only race 'the' killer combo" -- 1) Combos are still subject to factoring, 2) Most people build cars they LIKE and/or can afford, period. Otherwise, you'd already have 128 new Cobra Jets in the field. (And if you had 128 CJ's, refer to point #1.) PS - typing on a Blackberry sucks. This is how much I love you guys. LOL __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

12-27-2009, 12:17 PM	#8
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,504 Likes: 3,606 Liked 7,814 Times in 1,748 Posts	Re: Class win How about this, In SS, SS/ Mod cars to comp, cars and trucks run same class, SS and GT run same class,GTs have wt penalty, GT fwds have extra penalty. All Natl. Events run class, Class Winner is automatically in, 96 car field of Class Winners and fastest non winners. In Stock, All Natl. Events run class, same as above. At every race, minimum of 12 cars per eliminator to be torn down (rain or not) numbers are drawn out of a hat. DQ is minimum 1year off and offending parts are voluntarily surrendered, marked and destroyed. That ought to piss some people off. (Terry should like this one) __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

12-27-2009, 03:05 PM	#10
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Class win It would bring back fans to watch CLASS Stk and SS again also because by combining all the classes down to many fewer there would ALWAYS be enough cars entered to make some rounds of class. Currently too many classes divided into ??? racers and of the 80 cars allowed in the gate chances of BYES Way above chances of 5 or 6 in a class... I suggest 1 lb breaks also , stick and auto together with wt break for auto is suggestion.