What's up with NHRA logic?

Ron Ortiz · 03-02-2012, 11:30 AM

I fully understand the grade point system, always have always will. The PROBLEM is with the amount of entries per category. Why did they start the gators with only 55 Super Stock quota. 80 Stock, 70 S/G, and 100 S/C. And "class" racing for Stk and SS on top of it. That is stupid. Finally, SS was increased to 80 due to a flood of entries by the third week. Hey, common sense, but it stopped there.

Nothing against the S/C guys, but their rigs are all going to be long, why 100 then, while the others have less amount quota. Don't give me that BS of limited space, I've been pitted at the gators outside the fence and in the parking lot for too many years. It does not matter if you get there on Tuesday or Thursday, you're in the boondocks. The only time spectators see your car is on the way in to the gate or on the way out.

A major problem is that they are shrinking the quotas and giving more space to the "NHRA Needy". I said years ago that they were little by little eliminating bottom sportsman from National Events. Gators in the past were 128, then 100, then 90, now 80, why? With the advent of geographical "Sportsnationals" you can see the trend happening. It's coming. If they only have a 64 car field they would be happy, then your grade point system is a joke. You all know they treat you like crap, why else would you run eliminations at 8:00 AM, then at 10:00 PM on occasion. Yeah, I love racing, but not at 8:00 AM, especially with the sun looking down the track at you, heck I could not find the tree last year as I came out of the water box, much less see the bulbs.

Spectators love fuel cars at night, why don't they qualify at night to free up time trials during the day for other classes, that is just a lost opportunity to increase spectator presence, which results in more spending.

Jack, you said, " its their job to keep control of the entries - look at the IHRA - they never know how many are going to show up .How could you properly staff a race like Indy when you haven't a clue who will show up at the gate ?
Answer, you can enter the gators with 1 grade point up to March 5th, the race is the 8th, kind of like showing up at the gate. All they know is that only 80 can enter and that's what they go by. Staffing is predictable, this applies to an IHRA event like wise, but the option of entering on race day is a benefit to the racer, and the sanctioning body as it is increased revenue, without the loss of control.

You all need to take a real close look at the way things are happening, it is becoming obvious that only the "select" will be racing at future national events.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA only 13 from FL

Jack Matyas · 03-02-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Jack, you said, " its their job to keep control of the entries - look at the IHRA - they never know how many are going to show up .How could you properly staff a race like Indy when you haven't a clue who will show up at the gate ?
Answer, you can enter the gators with 1 grade point up to March 5th, the race is the 8th, kind of like showing up at the gate. All they know is that only 80 can enter and that's what they go by. Staffing is predictable, this applies to an IHRA event like wise, but the option of entering on race day is a benefit to the racer, and the sanctioning body as it is increased revenue, without the loss of control.

You all need to take a real close look at the way things are happening, it is becoming obvious that only the "select" will be racing at future national events.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA only 13 from FL

Ron - If everyone paid at the gate no one would pre-enter and staffing would still be an issue regardless of what the quota is .As far as the IHRA goes they have never had an 80 car Stock field ( in recent years ) - most are like 25 or 30 tops .

Select racers at National events - nope but they are the ones with grade points - and they earned them by going to the Lucas races .

Toby Lang · 03-02-2012, 02:08 PM

Do you even have to be there to get a grade point? Do you have to have a car? There were a few SS racers at Phoenix who got two grade points each by teching into stock or maybe they just had to buy a tech card. Maybe they teched in rental cars I don't know.

Do you know anybody at SGMP or Houston that could try to tech in for you or at least ask? I know it will cost $160 or whatever, but at least you would have a chance to enter the Gators.

-Toby

RacingRicki · 03-02-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

Do you even have to be there to get a grade point? Do you have to have a car? There were a few SS racers at Phoenix who got two grade points each by teching into stock or maybe they just had to buy a tech card. Maybe they teched in rental cars I don't know.

Do you know anybody at SGMP or Houston that could try to tech in for you or at least ask? I know it will cost $160 or whatever, but at least you would have a chance to enter the Gators.

-Toby

All you have to do is pass tech at a divisional or national open to get a grade point.

I find it funny that people get mad that NHRA won't let them in to race all the while cursing them about how they run their operation. If you don't like the way they run things, why would you be upset about not being able to experience their event.

Jim Wahl · 03-02-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacingRicki

All you have to do is pass tech at a divisional or national open to get a grade point.

I find it funny that people get mad that NHRA won't let them in to race all the while cursing them about how they run their operation. If you don't like the way they run things, why would you be upset about not being able to experience their event.

Good point! JIm

.

Lew Silverman · 03-02-2012, 10:22 PM

I still don't think Casey's question was answered -

Should there be an open entry option if there are entries available at a National event after all eligible participants have been accommodated?

Are unused quota's a bad thing?

Lew

RacingRicki · 03-02-2012, 11:58 PM

Ok. let's see if I understand the situation.

Stock filled up at grade 2 (before grade 1 opened up). Since then some racers withdrew but since it filled up at grade 2, only grade 2 or higher can get in even though we are now in the grade 1 window.

I'd say that since we are now in the grade 1 window that grade 1 participants should be allowed. However, since it filled up at grade 2, it's only fair to allow other grade 2 racers to enter before opening it up to grade 1 racers.

The question is how long should the other grade 2 racers have to sign up (after the withdrawls). What if the withdrawls happened the day before the grade 1 date. That only gives other grade 2's a day to find out there is room and sign up before grade 1 racers get to enter.

For NHRA it is a lot easier to enforce the policy they have now because the scenario that I just described leaves room for subjectivity and will surely P someone else off that feels they did not have time to signup and NHRA took a lower grade before them, blah, blah, blah.

How's that for an answer.

Lew Silverman · 03-03-2012, 08:52 AM

It still leaves the possibility of unused quota's and association members on the outside looking in. So in the interest of being fair, you wind up being unfair! All because there's no room to park!

Lew

RacingRicki · 03-04-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacingRicki

I'd say that since we are now in the grade 1 window that grade 1 participants should be allowed. However, since it filled up at grade 2, it's only fair to allow other grade 2 racers to enter before opening it up to grade 1 racers.

The question is how long should the other grade 2 racers have to sign up (after the withdrawls). What if the withdrawls happened the day before the grade 1 date. That only gives other grade 2's a day to find out there is room and sign up before grade 1 racers get to enter.

Ron - Just to clarify, I was talking about a hypothetical situation where NHRA should let grade 1 racers enter after the withdrawls but maybe not immediately.

Grade points don't add up between different years. They take the highest grade between last year and the current year (as you now know).

Here is a link to the grade point policy in case anyone wants the offical word on the matter.

http://www.nhra.net/apcm/templates/n...=2537&zoneid=8

03-02-2012, 11:30 AM	#1
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: What's up with NHRA logic? I fully understand the grade point system, always have always will. The PROBLEM is with the amount of entries per category. Why did they start the gators with only 55 Super Stock quota. 80 Stock, 70 S/G, and 100 S/C. And "class" racing for Stk and SS on top of it. That is stupid. Finally, SS was increased to 80 due to a flood of entries by the third week. Hey, common sense, but it stopped there. Nothing against the S/C guys, but their rigs are all going to be long, why 100 then, while the others have less amount quota. Don't give me that BS of limited space, I've been pitted at the gators outside the fence and in the parking lot for too many years. It does not matter if you get there on Tuesday or Thursday, you're in the boondocks. The only time spectators see your car is on the way in to the gate or on the way out. A major problem is that they are shrinking the quotas and giving more space to the "NHRA Needy". I said years ago that they were little by little eliminating bottom sportsman from National Events. Gators in the past were 128, then 100, then 90, now 80, why? With the advent of geographical "Sportsnationals" you can see the trend happening. It's coming. If they only have a 64 car field they would be happy, then your grade point system is a joke. You all know they treat you like crap, why else would you run eliminations at 8:00 AM, then at 10:00 PM on occasion. Yeah, I love racing, but not at 8:00 AM, especially with the sun looking down the track at you, heck I could not find the tree last year as I came out of the water box, much less see the bulbs. Spectators love fuel cars at night, why don't they qualify at night to free up time trials during the day for other classes, that is just a lost opportunity to increase spectator presence, which results in more spending. Jack, you said, " its their job to keep control of the entries - look at the IHRA - they never know how many are going to show up .How could you properly staff a race like Indy when you haven't a clue who will show up at the gate ? Answer, you can enter the gators with 1 grade point up to March 5th, the race is the 8th, kind of like showing up at the gate. All they know is that only 80 can enter and that's what they go by. Staffing is predictable, this applies to an IHRA event like wise, but the option of entering on race day is a benefit to the racer, and the sanctioning body as it is increased revenue, without the loss of control. You all need to take a real close look at the way things are happening, it is becoming obvious that only the "select" will be racing at future national events. Ron Ortiz U/SA only 13 from FL __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK

03-02-2012, 02:08 PM	#3
Toby Lang VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 2,133 Likes: 2 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: What's up with NHRA logic? Do you even have to be there to get a grade point? Do you have to have a car? There were a few SS racers at Phoenix who got two grade points each by teching into stock or maybe they just had to buy a tech card. Maybe they teched in rental cars I don't know. Do you know anybody at SGMP or Houston that could try to tech in for you or at least ask? I know it will cost $160 or whatever, but at least you would have a chance to enter the Gators. -Toby

03-02-2012, 10:22 PM	#6
Lew Silverman VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,435 Likes: 371 Liked 129 Times in 59 Posts	Re: What's up with NHRA logic? I still don't think Casey's question was answered - Should there be an open entry option if there are entries available at a National event after all eligible participants have been accommodated? Are unused quota's a bad thing? Lew __________________ Lew Silverman #2070 "The Wagon Master" N/SA

03-02-2012, 11:58 PM	#7
RacingRicki Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 106 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What's up with NHRA logic? Ok. let's see if I understand the situation. Stock filled up at grade 2 (before grade 1 opened up). Since then some racers withdrew but since it filled up at grade 2, only grade 2 or higher can get in even though we are now in the grade 1 window. I'd say that since we are now in the grade 1 window that grade 1 participants should be allowed. However, since it filled up at grade 2, it's only fair to allow other grade 2 racers to enter before opening it up to grade 1 racers. The question is how long should the other grade 2 racers have to sign up (after the withdrawls). What if the withdrawls happened the day before the grade 1 date. That only gives other grade 2's a day to find out there is room and sign up before grade 1 racers get to enter. For NHRA it is a lot easier to enforce the policy they have now because the scenario that I just described leaves room for subjectivity and will surely P someone else off that feels they did not have time to signup and NHRA took a lower grade before them, blah, blah, blah. How's that for an answer. __________________ RacingRicki

03-03-2012, 08:52 AM	#8
Lew Silverman VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,435 Likes: 371 Liked 129 Times in 59 Posts	Re: What's up with NHRA logic? It still leaves the possibility of unused quota's and association members on the outside looking in. So in the interest of being fair, you wind up being unfair! All because there's no room to park! Lew __________________ Lew Silverman #2070 "The Wagon Master" N/SA