The Fall f the United States, The End

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Still wrong. Record revenue is record revenue. The tax cuts created record revenue. If spending outpaces that record revenue, it's the spending that causes debt, not the tax cuts. And spending outpaced revenue, in both cases. It does not matter how high tax rates or revenue are, if spending outpaces the revenue. And in the modern era, it almost always does.


Spending is a problem for both sides. Almost the entire debt can be attributed to the entitlements created by the "war on poverty", which is an abject failure. People cannot be bought out of poverty. Like lottery winners, people who get free money to buy them out of poverty are broke again almost immediately. They're not broke because they can't make money, they're broke because they won't make money and won't manage money.

So where did all this "record revenue" come from? The three main sources of federal tax revenue are individual income taxes, payroll taxes, and corporate income taxes. Per the Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 8. If corporate taxes are reduced, what does that leave to pay the rest?



I totally agree that the government spends way beyond it's means, I am for a flat tax with no deductions. I would also like to see a budget passed on time, the Federal Fiscal Year ends September 30. This year they were working on it in June. I would like to see something that was implemented here in California. If the budget goes past the due date the Assembly does not get paid.


You and I are on the same page with regards to spending, it is out of control.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

So where did all this "record revenue" come from? The three main sources of federal tax revenue are individual income taxes, payroll taxes, and corporate income taxes. Per the Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 8. If corporate taxes are reduced, what does that leave to pay the rest?



I totally agree that the government spends way beyond it's means, I am for a flat tax with no deductions. I would also like to see a budget passed on time, the Federal Fiscal Year ends September 30. This year they were working on it in June. I would like to see something that was implemented here in California. If the budget goes past the due date the Assembly does not get paid.


You and I are on the same page with regards to spending, it is out of control.

The record revenue comes from a healthy and growing economy. It's obvious. Look up the numbers. The tax rate being reduced does not necessarily reduce revenue, and in fact, reducing the tax rate, encouraging spending, investment, and production, usually increases the amount of revenue. Excessive taxation serves only to stagnate the economy, and discourage investment, production, and growth. It's a simple matter of human nature. That which you penalize is reduced. Taxation penalizes the creation of wealth. Excessive taxation kills it.

[Greg Reimer 7376]

I'll summarize my theology by being concise and hopefully profound:

Religion is man's attempt to define God.

Doctrine is man's attempt to explain what God does.

Tradition is man explaining how God has always done things.

Scripture is God's revelation of who He is.

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The record revenue comes from a healthy and growing economy. It's obvious. Look up the numbers. The tax rate being reduced does not necessarily reduce revenue, and in fact, reducing the tax rate, encouraging spending, investment, and production, usually increases the amount of revenue. Excessive taxation serves only to stagnate the economy, and discourage investment, production, and growth. It's a simple matter of human nature. That which you penalize is reduced. Taxation penalizes the creation of wealth. Excessive taxation kills it.

Trickle down economics, never worked! Tax breaks to the consumer means more spending which in turn grows the economy.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

Trickle down economics, never worked! Tax breaks to the consumer means more spending which in turn grows the economy.

It worked under Kennedy, Reagan, and Trump.



The fact that increased spending increased the deficit and the debt does not refute that lower tax rates and fewer regulations improve the economy and increase tax revenue.





The idea that you can "give poor people money" and improve the economy is proven false, constantly. It doesn't even improve their position.


"Consumers" do not employ people. Producers employ people, making it possible for those who consume to have income to fund their consumption.


The top 50% of the tax payers pay 95% or so of the tax revenue. The top 10% pay almost 55%. Reducing the tax rate on those people encourages them to invest and spend more to increase their income, increasing their income increases revenue.


Further, corporations do not pay taxes. The increased cost of doing business caused by higher tax rates is merely passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices, and drives production out of the country, killing jobs.


Read Sowell, Freidman, and Laffer. Keynes and Krugman are as disproven as Marx.

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

It worked under Kennedy, Reagan, and Trump.



The fact that increased spending increased the deficit and the debt does not refute that lower tax rates and fewer regulations improve the economy and increase tax revenue.






The idea that you can "give poor people money" and improve the economy is proven false, constantly. It doesn't even improve their position.


"Consumers" do not employ people. Producers employ people, making it possible for those who consume to have income to fund their consumption.


The top 50% of the tax payers pay 95% or so of the tax revenue. The top 10% pay almost 55%. Reducing the tax rate on those people encourages them to invest and spend more to increase their income, increasing their income increases revenue.


Further, corporations do not pay taxes. The increased cost of doing business caused by higher tax rates is merely passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices, and drives production out of the country, killing jobs.


Read Sowell, Freidman, and Laffer. Keynes and Krugman are as disproven as Marx.

Wrong, Cutting taxes for the wealthy often does not translate to increased rates of employment, consumer spending, and government revenues in the long term. Instead, cutting taxes for middle- and lower-income earners will drive the economy through the trickle-up phenomenon. The added income for the wealthy, resulting from tax cuts, will simply increase the growing income inequality in the United States.

Trump and Reagan used it and both tripled the debt.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

Wrong, Cutting taxes for the wealthy often does not translate to increased rates of employment, consumer spending, and government revenues in the long term. Instead, cutting taxes for middle- and lower-income earners will drive the economy through the trickle-up phenomenon. The added income for the wealthy, resulting from tax cuts, will simply increase the growing income inequality in the United States.

Trump and Reagan used it and both tripled the debt.

Again, you gleefully ignore the spending.



NEVER has any form of giving the "lower income" segment any money resulted in economic progress.


The FIRST problem with your baseless theory is that the bottom 40% barely pay ANY federal income taxes of any kind. At most, they pay some federal taxes such as those on fuels. Quite literally, the biggest burdens on "lower classes" are the result of high tax rates on corporations, which substantially increase the cost of goods and services, and the burden of inflation, driven by the government not only spending, but drastically increasing the debt, and quite literally inventing money out of thin air, reducing the value of money in circulation.



If you want to give them a break, reduce the taxes charged to those who make the goods they purchase, thereby reducing the cost of the goods they require to survive. And increasing the amount of production done within the borders, increasing their chance at higher wages.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

Wrong, Cutting taxes for the wealthy often does not translate to increased rates of employment, consumer spending, and government revenues in the long term. Instead, cutting taxes for middle- and lower-income earners will drive the economy through the trickle-up phenomenon. The added income for the wealthy, resulting from tax cuts, will simply increase the growing income inequality in the United States.

Trump and Reagan used it and both tripled the debt.

In addition, you're completely wrong, on ALL counts, and the most recent economic history proves that. Not only did the Trump tax cuts produce RECORD federal tax revenue, far above that of the previous higher tax rates, it also created economic growth that created the lowest recorded unemployment levels of recent recorded history, including record lows in minority unemployment. Not to mention, under Trump, the wage and wealth growth rate for the middle class exceeded that of the higher class for the first time in decades.

[SStockDart]

Even at my age, I learn something everyday. Thanks to Hunter Biden, you don't have to go to jail for an illegal gun purchase if you are a druggie. Additionally, obviously everyone can claim prostitution costs as business expenses on tax returns. Thousands are now preparing their amended tax returns. Lol. Thanks Hunter

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

In addition, you're completely wrong, on ALL counts, and the most recent economic history proves that. Not only did the Trump tax cuts produce RECORD federal tax revenue, far above that of the previous higher tax rates, it also created economic growth that created the lowest recorded unemployment levels of recent recorded history, including record lows in minority unemployment. Not to mention, under Trump, the wage and wealth growth rate for the middle class exceeded that of the higher class for the first time in decades.

I'll go with facts and figures.


Fact: Trump has become the first president since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression to depart office with fewer jobs in the country than when he entered.

Fact: The gross domestic product went up in Trump’s first two years, peaking at an estimated 2.9% in 2018 — the highest since 2005. But the economy grew only 2.3% in 2019 and the bottom fell out in 2020.
The real GDP declined 3.4% in 2020 from the previous year. It was the largest drop since 1947, when the nation’s economy declined 11.6% after years of economic expansion fueled by World War II.

Fact: As a candidate and president, Trump promised the nation’s economy would grow on an annual basis by 4% to 6%. But it never topped 3%.