2011 ahfs

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

On a separate note, once again, I am shocked by the lack of discussion about reducing the number of classes, whether it be wider weight breaks, sticks n' autos, or what have you -- any of which would generate more heads-up racing (which working in concert with the AHFS would help bring combos into line much quicker). Any so-called "performance guy" against this should be embarrased that it takes a bracket racer to bring it up.

OR, we could just use the 15 years of data that have already been compiled, do simple run completion to make up for the 1000' dumpers, utilize McCarty's bell curve, reset ALL of the classes, indexes, and HP factors ONCE right now, and then everybody could run with no trigger for another 5 years! Bang, we're back to real racing, everybody can do "hard work" on their combination without fear, and everybody can race to the finish line without fear. Or does that make too much sense?

X 2 AND 3. Good post Michael. The fast guys want thier cake and eat it to !

[Chad Rhodes]

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

[B Aceves]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

Ha you beat me too it !
ITS Embbarrsing that it takes a Performance Bassed Racer to realize the Big picture now doesnt it. Or maybe a bracket racer also hmm idk. Good post
X2 X3 X4 X5 whatever......

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish:

Exactly what I have said multiple times - the fast guys want to maintain their advantage and cry foul when the shoe is on the other foot. The new cars will be brought into line. There may need to be some lower weight breaks so they do not have to weigh 4000 lbs. There may be new classes. NHRA will take care of it - just not fast enough to suit most.

A simple solution for altitude tracks is to decrease the factors so that we can't run farther under at an altitude track than a sea level track. It does not take a rocket scientist to know they are to much. That's why guys tow 2000 miles to set records in Boise. This single change to the altitude track factors would eliminate most of the concern.

Come on guys - all of us know how to back our car down and know what it will run (bias tires, timing, oil, weight) do the work if you want to save your HP - like we have been doing it for years.


:-) peace

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

This is a performance based eliminator To many on here want to forget that.

I agree with number one.
But as far as number two goes if someone "legally" finds a way to go faster than the competition. There should be no reason to let the slower guys have a free ride.

[Angelo DiTocco]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

very good points Chad -

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco

Artie - I think you should read my most before commenting on what Joe wrote

Sorry Angelo. I read the first line, and skipped to the next post.This thread is going like a chat room hard to keep up

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by K Stubbs

Ron, Buddy, I wonder if you had won first round at pomona and had to race Lynch heads up second round, you would still feel the same way about everything? : ) Or just agree that you are doing the right thing by ordering a new drag pack.

Yea I know Kevin - we were not looking forward to it (and it never happened) but we would have iced, cooled, change the timing, tires, oil and valves to give him all we had. Anything could happen (hood blow off or something) it is drag racing.

Just like when I had to run another Challenger (6-Pak) years ago in the semi-finals at Pomona. Dave Schmidt's with Darrin Grossi driving - had us .4 (see the similarity). Did not have a forum to go on and complain about the soft combo then so we just took our lumps and went on..

Everything changes yet everything stays the same - weird


:-) peace

Now on to fantasy football

Play Peyton or not is the real burning question - I will worry about HP later today

LOL

:-)

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by art leong

This is a performance based eliminator To many on here want to forget that.

I agree with number one.
But as far as number two goes if someone "legally" finds a way to go faster than the competition. There should be no reason to let the slower guys have a free ride.

my point is this, if one guy with a combo has everyone else covered, then HE is the standout, not the combo. If one combo has everyone else covered, then the COMBO is the standout. If you punish the whole group on one's actions then you are promoting mediocrity. I don't see it as the slower guys having a free ride as much as I see it as one guy either spends more, knows, more, or works more. That person earned an advantage ( with the spending more being questionable). Let's use a hypothetical situation here, you have combo A that has 20 guys actively running one. 3 of them are .25 under, 1 is 1.10 under, and the rest are a tight average around .8 under. Obviously the 3 slow cars need to fix their problems and get to work ( I occasionally fall in that category), the one guy flying needs to go through a good "TSA style" tech inspection, but do you really think the other 16 guys as a whole are getting a free ride?

I don't think this is unfair to the class. Sure you have a standout, but that standout gives everyone else a target to aim at and it doesn't discourage people from having a fast race car. If you said that the instant hit only applies if the combo has an average of -.xx that's all it would take to keep from killing a combination.

Remember that the AHFS is intended to keep the playing field level between combinations, not individuals.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

my point is this, if one guy with a combo has everyone else covered, then HE is the standout, not the combo. If one combo has everyone else covered, then the COMBO is the standout. If you punish the whole group on one's actions then you are promoting mediocrity. I don't see it as the slower guys having a free ride as much as I see it as one guy either spends more, knows, more, or works more. That person earned an advantage ( with the spending more being questionable). Let's use a hypothetical situation here, you have combo A that has 20 guys actively running one. 3 of them are .25 under, 1 is 1.10 under, and the rest are a tight average around .8 under. Obviously the 3 slow cars need to fix their problems and get to work ( I occasionally fall in that category), the one guy flying needs to go through a good "TSA style" tech inspection, but do you really think the other 16 guys as a whole are getting a free ride?

I don't think this is unfair to the class. Sure you have a standout, but that standout gives everyone else a target to aim at and it doesn't discourage people from having a fast race car. If you said that the instant hit only applies if the combo has an average of -.xx that's all it would take to keep from killing a combination.

Remember that the AHFS is intended to keep the playing field level between combinations, not individuals.

Chad what would you do in my case? Where there are only 2 other cars in the world?
One problem is a lot of racers have "I have to run the same combo that everyone else does"
I agree with the complete full teardown before a instant hit.
The last time I ran fast enough to get an instant hit I was told I might as well take the record because I was getting checked anyway.