2011 ahfs

[joe176]

The reason I chose to make the switch from bracket racing to SS in 1995 was three things. One to race with the quality of cars similar to mine, two the challenge of learning to make your car go faster all year long and three racing against the big names of the sport. I started at the bottom of the qualifying sheet...losing first round at a alot of races slowly learning and improving as I went along. That has slowly evolved into wanting to slow my car down at national events for the last few years as to not trigger the system to now slowing my car down at all the races I will be attending......kinda takes the fun out of it for me. When I talk to local guys from my area that bracket race and explain to them whats involved to make all this happen to attend these races they roll their eyes at me....tell me I'm crazy when they hear the return you get out of it.
I can put a bracket motor in my car..that will last 200 runs or more for half the price, trans with all steel parts for alot less money and go run high dollar bracket or foot brake races or run Atco saturday...head up the turnpike and run etown sunday.....and I would be saving tons of money and time off from work......these races are not a requirement of life...there are other choices and NHRA is slowly opening my eyes to them.

Ps...anyone see Jeff Hefler's bracket chevy II at pomona....gorgious bracket car....looks like he's having fun !!!!!!!!!!!

[Eric Merryfield]

Before I go jogging this morning, I reread in detail Mike's original post. Maybe Travis, etc can explain;

Is there a typo/decimal point error in the reduction? .1-.55 under count under review. .066 up and .04-.065 up couldn't happen with data ranging from .1-.55.

I copied and pasted it below, 1 last thought, maybe a 3.25% reduction spot to really spice things up.

So every run every where will be used for both adding and reducing..Not just national events, this is spot on especially for reductions.....Mark, this could be good for you!

And to truly give people incentive right now to be on the phone to Mark, etc, looking for parts, make the Reduction Requests rule changes effective right away and make the reductions happen like the additions do, effective on Tuesday.


SO:

The screenings will look for an overall engine family average less than 0.550-seconds under. Runs of 0.100-second under and slower are not included in calculating the engine average:

In addition, the combination must NOT make two runs of 0.650 or quicker for the review to continue or any run 0.850 or quicker.)

Engine family average: The overall engine average for all cars, regardless of class, running the particular engine combination being reviewed is included in this screening.

If the engine family average is found to be slower than 0.550-second under, a change will be initiated.

To more clearly illustrate how the AHFS program affects a given combination, the following is a hypothetical evaluation in Stock Eliminator for a 305 cubic-inch, 150 factory rated horsepower, carbureted Camaro during a review period:

A written request triggered a review by the committee. As per the procedure outlined above, there were NOT 2 runs 0.650-second or quicker preventing a review or ANY run 0.850-second or quicker preventing a review. The overall engine average is analyzed next. Upon reviewing the engine average made by the combination, 10 runs had been recorded (2 in I/SA and 8 in J/SA) with a total engine average of 0.535-second under. Because the overall engine average did not hit the required 0.550-second under, the combination proceeds with the evaluation.

Once the need for an adjustment is determined, the following sliding-scale formula, based on a percentage of horsepower, is used to calculate the horsepower decrease:

Under Index
Horsepower Decrease
Index Change

0.066-quicker
1.25%
+.05

0.04-0.065
2.25%
+.10

Thanks

Eric

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

And they will still be called d**k swingers and ego polishers

Ed, just to make this perfectly clear, I don't put many racers into this catagory. If somebody chooses a tuff, thrashed out combo (or an obscure, bad combo) and tries to make it better through hard work and experimentation then my hat is off to him. There are too many people (not racers) that come into our sport, throw around a lot of money, try to "win at any cost and damn the rules", show up at the track with their lawyer and have the rules manipulated or changed to suit they're needs. They do damage to our sport, hang around for a few years, get bored and "buy a boat". The problem is, when they leave, the damage is done and the "real racers" are still here left having to deal with the damage.

[Bob Pagano]

Now aint that the truth , Billy your spot on, seen it many times myself.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Travis Miller

It looks like a 1.10 under immediate hit on the revised AHFS for 2011 would have done much more for getting horsepowers corrected and done it a lot quicker than 1.20 under.

Considering that .3 was taken off the indexes this year, a 1.10 under immediate hit would have been exactly the same as the old 1.40 under hit. I seem to remember everyone being very happy with the hit set at 1.40 under. Setting the new hit at 1.20 under puts us back to the same as when the AHFS started in 2002 with a hit of 1.50 under.

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

On a separate note, once again, I am shocked by the lack of discussion about reducing the number of classes, whether it be wider weight breaks, sticks n' autos, or what have you -- any of which would generate more heads-up racing (which working in concert with the AHFS would help bring combos into line much quicker). Any so-called "performance guy" against this should be embarrased that it takes a bracket racer to bring it up.

OR, we could just use the 15 years of data that have already been compiled, do simple run completion to make up for the 1000' dumpers, utilize McCarty's bell curve, reset ALL of the classes, indexes, and HP factors ONCE right now, and then everybody could run with no trigger for another 5 years! Bang, we're back to real racing, everybody can do "hard work" on their combination without fear, and everybody can race to the finish line without fear. Or does that make too much sense?

[Paul Merolla]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

On a separate note, once again, I am shocked by the lack of discussion about reducing the number of classes, whether it be wider weight breaks, sticks n' autos, or what have you -- any of which would generate more heads-up racing (which working in concert with the AHFS would help bring combos into line much quicker). Any so-called "performance guy" against this should be embarrased that it takes a bracket racer to bring it up.

OR, we could just use the 15 years of data that have already been compiled, do simple run completion to make up for the 1000' dumpers, utilize McCarty's bell curve, reset ALL of the classes, indexes, and HP factors ONCE right now, and then everybody could run with no trigger for another 5 years! Bang, we're back to real racing, everybody can do "hard work" on their combination without fear, and everybody can race to the finish line without fear. Or does that make too much sense?

Waaaay too much sense, Michael.

[Jeff Teuton]

I think the reality of the data which obviously NHRA does not have about the true state of these two eliminators might show a different picture. With over 15000 runs in Stock and over 11000 in Super Stock, the picture is somewhat different. That is for 2010. The new AHFS would have accelerated the newer cars, but a lot of older cars would get some adjustment also. I think more than most people would think. I don't have all of it in my computer at home, but there is a pattern of lots of older cars that steadily thrash all year that would get the semi annual adjustment where most of the adjustment for the newer cars is earned on instant adjustment. Anyone interested in their combo? Post what you run and I will look it up with all the juicy details, inenudo, and other things that make this exciting. Travis, I think there were 632 or so runs in Stock over 110 under. Lot's of adjustment there. You couldn't keep up. Yeah, maybe you could.

[Jeff Teuton]

Michael, it would take more than a bell curve to do what you want. Maybe a 'Gong" curve.
As far as the heads up racing, you know I am 300% for that, but I'm telling you, most Stock and Super Stock racers are not ready for a lot of heads up. It's like sighting Santo Domingo from the deck of the Santa Maria. A new experience, and the Indians aren't always friendly. Look at SS/AH. Cost of doing that outran inflation by 2,676,438%, and most of the ultra fast can't run rounds any more.

[thomas sheehan]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

Well said Michael..... (I was thinking the same thing... but you put it into words).

[Bob Pagano]

Nice Michael, Common sense ! But dont think there is any out on the left coast.
Travis, I am sorry I left you off the list of people if put in a room could fix the mess. Please accept my apology.