CJ engine options and HP ratings.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by 69Cobra

That dyno is out of calibration.

Which one? Are you sure? Because the dyno numbers sure match the performance so far.

[69Cobra]

Yeah you're talking about a speed shop that make the dyno read what ever they want by a stroke of a few keys. Look customer your car came in making 500 hp and now it makes 600 hp and all we did was change the tune (and the DA on the dyno) and look we made you 100 hp more. BTW here's your bill for $1,000 have a good day.

[Charley Downing]

$100,000 to build a new cj is a little high. And the year has everything to do with it you just don't get it. As far as dyno numbers go what do you think a good LS1 makes for power? I know for a fact some LS1 make over 535hp and there rated at 373hp. If the cj makes somewhere around600hp and is rated at 435hp it's really not that far out of line.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

$100,000 to build a new cj is a little high. And the year has everything to do with it you just don't get it. As far as dyno numbers go what do you think a good LS1 makes for power? I know for a fact some LS1 make over 535hp and there rated at 373hp. If the cj makes somewhere around600hp and is rated at 435hp it's really not that far out of line.

The Cobra Jet makes over 700HP at the flywheel.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by 69Cobra

Yeah you're talking about a speed shop that make the dyno read what ever they want by a stroke of a few keys. Look customer your car came in making 500 hp and now it makes 600 hp and all we did was change the tune (and the DA on the dyno) and look we made you 100 hp more. BTW here's your bill for $1,000 have a good day.

Really? Gee, I know nothing about dynos, I've only been operating them for 20 years or so.

You can make a dyno lie, but it is hard to fool the clocks at a drag strip.

[Dave Ficacci]

Originally Posted by 69Cobra

Yeah you're talking about a speed shop that make the dyno read what ever they want by a stroke of a few keys. Look customer your car came in making 500 hp and now it makes 600 hp and all we did was change the tune (and the DA on the dyno) and look we made you 100 hp more. BTW here's your bill for $1,000 have a good day.

So basically you are saying JDM has no integrity and they lie to there customers? Is that your stance on JDM?

[X-TECH MAN]

Before all is said and done all of you are going to end up with very EXPENSIVE "Door Stops and Flower Pots".

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

There were over 1200 COPO L-72 Camaros built, 69 ZL-1 Camaros, plenty of L-88 Corvettes, around 500 or so L-72 69 Chevelles, and the list goes on. All real street legal cars sold at the dealership. Not only that, only the ZL-1 Camaro had a really high price tag.

No argument here. But, each of the cars that you have mentioned was built with Stock Eliminator in mind. They also conformed to the rules of the day. History tells that there was a lot more interest in Stock back then. Almost every local track ran trophy races for Stock.

If these cross breed crate motor combinations are legal, then why isn't a 67 Corvette L-88 legal? After all, they built and sold 36 of them. Who knows how many were given away.

The way that the Challenger/Mustang combos are being introduced I don't see why they couldn't allow the L-88. It wouldn't bother me one bit.

If the Roush cars are legal, why aren't all the Yenko cars, or all of the Baldwin/Motion cars?

I think that Roush has actually done all the work that the Feds require to make those cars legal just like SLP did with the Firehawks. Why can't you run an L72 Yenko? The Motion cars were pretty much built to order cars, so I can't see how they can be part of this conversation.

It's suddenly all fine and dandy to put just about anything in Stock Eliminator, regardless of whether or not it was even remotely intended for street use, or even produced at the factory. There used to be a rule about "export cars", "tuner cars" and all of that. Rules intended specifically to keep ringers with bogus factors out of Stock. But now it is evidently okay to put anything in Stock, regardless of it ever being actually produced or available in the showroom at all. And you can evidently name your own factor as well.

I really can't agree with this statement. The new factory cars are being built to fit the "current" NHRA rules. Just like all those cars that you mentioned earlier. In 1969 you could drive your car out of the dealer lot, do minimal work, and be competetive at local events. That is not the case today. I am glad that these cars take a lot of waste out of buying/building a new Stocker.

The idea that all of this is absolutely no different than 98 F bodies with 97 LT-1 engines is the biggest bunch of BS I've seen. In fact, evidently the 97 and 98 carry the same HP factor and the same curb weight. So, in effect, they're only different in appearance.

My understanding on this one is that it was entirely a marketing deal for GM. I have two of these cars. I have upgraded the front end on both cars, because I can. But, I really don't know why the NHRA allowed it. Nothing would be gained by fixing this.

But somehow they are as outrageously bogus as a car that has 650HP at the rear wheels in stock form being factored at 425 HP. Yeah, right.

I have said in the past that I question the power plant choices allowed. But if this is the direction that Stock is going, I will be following it. It would be a shame to miss being a part of the biggest factory involvement in 40 years.

[Alan Roehrich]

You can race a Yenko 69 L-72 Camaro or Chevelle. But not a 67 or 68 Yenko L-72 Camaro. You can race a 70 LT-1 Camaro or Corvette, but you can't race a Yenko LT-1 Nova. The point being you can now race what amounts to a crate motor car built by a tuner that doesn't even have to meet a minimum sales number, where before there were rules in place specifically to keep such cars (Yenko cars, and Baldwin/Motion cars) OUT of Stock, and even Super Stock.

You can't race a 67 L-88 Corvette, at least not as anything other than a SS/GT car, and yet it is absolutely no further from a real showroom car than a new Challenger Drag Pack car, in fact it is closer, far closer.

Now all of that is legal, and expensive existing cars of current racers are not only being rendered obsolete and uncompetitive, but the means of recovering some sort of ability to compete is being almost completely removed. If this is the way Stock is going, it is going to die. I suppose if you can get excited about being a part of that "history", more power to you.

[Alan Roehrich]

I am not at all opposed to OEM participation, in fact, the opposite is true.

But I am diametrically opposed to NHRA and OEM's blatantly, obviously, and intentionally screwing everyone who does not buy one of the new cars. The class cannot stand it, and the racers cannot afford it.

And no, this is not "just like the original factory wars", because in this case NHRA is a knowing and willing accomplice colluding to screw over anyone not willing and able to just pony up for a brand new factory Stock Eliminator class killer. And in this economy, that is the vast majority of racers, because the vast majority could never afford to to it, even if they could sell their current car, which they can't, because even without the market being flooded, cars aren't selling, unless they're nearly given away, and a lot of them aren't selling even then. Imagine what cars would be worth if a large segment of racers began trying to sell them in order to build these new killer cars, if they could, or wanted to.