2012 Camaro in the NHRA Classguide

[Michael Beard]

Why ?
Just curious.

4250# / 556 HP = 7.64 which would make it a natural CC/SA car. 10.60 index < 12.01 E.T. Is there 2 seconds in the car? Mebbe. Not cheap.

[zracer305]

I'm not trying to defend myself, I know what this car is capable of doing and so does GM and the NHRA. The point that I was trying to make was this is a new car that no one is running, looks very nice with very clean lines. However, GM doesn't want any competition for the Camaro. You can't build and run any car that you like. NHRA has give GM the authorization of to tell us what we can and cannot build. This is not how it use to be and should not be IMO.

Someone asked is there 2 seconds in the CTS-V. Well, the Mustang GT (which is in the video) a like car just qualified #10 at Cordova Ill. with a very impressive 8.910 in AAA/SA trim on a 9.70 index. Do the math. Oh, BTW he won the event too!!!

[Michael Beard]

Someone asked is there 2 seconds in the CTS-V. Well, the Mustang GT (which is in the video) a like car just qualified #10 at Cordova Ill. with a very impressive 8.910 in AAA/SA trim on a 9.70 index. Do the math.

Math: The COPO is rated at 435, making it about 900 pounds lighter in the same class.

While it would be nice if every single car combination ever built was in the Guide and available for racers to decide for themselves what they do and do not want to race, realistically it is the factory's ball (ie., finances, marketing, etc.). While the CTS-V is not 'in competition' with the COPO, it would not show itself in a favorable light in S/SS competition. The factories choose to market their different products in different venues.

As a sidebar, one of my all-time favorite Stockers is Ray Golanka's Q/SA Cadillac.

[Rat Raceway]

Originally Posted by zracer305

I'm not trying to defend myself, I know what this car is capable of doing and so does GM and the NHRA. The point that I was trying to make was this is a new car that no one is running, looks very nice with very clean lines. However, GM doesn't want any competition for the Camaro. You can't build and run any car that you like. NHRA has give GM the authorization of to tell us what we can and cannot build. This is not how it use to be and should not be IMO.

Someone asked is there 2 seconds in the CTS-V. Well, the Mustang GT (which is in the video) a like car just qualified #10 at Cordova Ill. with a very impressive 8.910 in AAA/SA trim on a 9.70 index. Do the math. Oh, BTW he won the event too!!!

The two mustangs your talking about are about as apples to oranges comparison as it gets. Just like a COPO compared to a SS or a ZL1, not at all.

Until you have taken a long look and understand what it takes to make a true stock class racer, it is very under estimated by the average person.

At this point I don't see anyone else Dodge or Ford adding another fighter to there card. IMO.

[D.Johns]

If NHRA put it in the guides and mandated the factory pulley sizes(like they do on the Cobra Jets and COPOs) the platform would not be very competitive. A lot of what the aftermarket does to the CTS-V would not be allowed per the rulebook.

No pulley changes, No blower swaps, No Throttle Body changes, No mass air housing changes, No high lift cams, these are all things that people that are running fast with the CTS-V are doing.

A car that I would think would have been competitive never really did much. I heard of one person building one but sold it. The 03 Cobra(its in the guide) 3400# at 390HP. These cars were under rated from the factory. The IRS could be swapped for a 4 link the rule book says nothing about pulley size in the blueprint section, the 4.6s architecture lends itself well to amazing RPM and the Heads are really good. The car is a natural F/S which is an 11.80 index IIRC. This car could run the number needed under the rules. If NHRA said nope stock pulleys required then it just became a whole lot more expensive to build. I heavily considered pulling off my aftermarket supercharger on my 03 Cobra that's my daily driver to go run at one time. But decided the CJ was the route and I wanted to go faster then my daily driver with a purpose built racecar.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. If you want to build one submit everything to NHRA its a long uphill battle to get new items in the guide. If you want to do it chase after it. Don't give up just because its hard or people discouraging it. People who say it can't be done should not interupt those that are doing it.

[BRETV]

D. Johns,

I am the one that built the 03 Cobra and got it classified and put into the guides. It was a full year and a half process going between Ford and NHRA to get it done, kinda of pain but worth it non the less. I started with a body in white and built it from the ground up. The car went 10.75 at 127 mph in A/S in 4000ft of air in August at the Northern Sports with a complete stock long block from Ford and Comp stocker cams and springs. I did put a Lightning upper pulley on the Eaton. The car only went down the track 10 times. I hadn't even had a chance to tune the car, EGT were way off, the car had too much gear and many other new car bugs. I only sold it cause of the 2008 economic crash, or the car would still be in my garage. Before the Cobra Jets, it would have been the real deal!!!



Bret Velde

[zracer305]

If NHRA put it in the guides and mandated the factory pulley sizes(like they do on the Cobra Jets and COPOs) the platform would not be very competitive. A lot of what the aftermarket does to the CTS-V would not be allowed per the rulebook. No pulley changes, No blower swaps, No Throttle Body changes, No mass air housing changes, No high lift cams, these are all things that people that are running fast with the CTS-V are doing.

Gentleman, the CTS-V in the video is showroom stock. The Mustang is the car that had several modification done to it. The Mustang is factory rated 100hp more than the CTS-V yet could only beat the CTS-V by .5.

Let's forget the CTS-V thing for a moment and say I wanted to build a new Corvette that has the same engine combination. Hmmmm, turns out that that combination is not listed either. Again my concern is with GM when they tell me:

"We won't compete "against" ourselves. That is a no-win situation. Whether you agree with that strategy or not, that is our plan."

It seems to me what GM should be concerned about is placing winners in the winner circle regardless of model and giving all production cars exposure. The COOPs are not production cars, don't have VIN #'s and cannot be driven on the street. Not to mention have a FORD rearend. Yet they are allowed in stock. Don't get me wrong I'm not against the COOPs, just feel I should be able to build what ever combination I choose as long as it is a production car.

[kdanner]

Originally Posted by zracer305

Gentleman, the CTS-V in the video is showroom stock. The Mustang is the car that had several modification done to it. The Mustang is factory rated 100hp more than the CTS-V yet could only beat the CTS-V by .5.

Are you just making these numbers up? That Mustang is factory rated 56HP LESS than the CTS-V.

It's seems like you're trying to make out that Mustang to be a 2013 GT500 with a 5.8 and the TVS 2300 blower rated at 662HP. It's not at all. Those early GT500s were a 5.4 with a M122 blower and were rated at 500HP.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by zracer305

Gentleman, the CTS-V in the video is showroom stock. The Mustang is the car that had several modification done to it. The Mustang is factory rated 100hp more than the CTS-V yet could only beat the CTS-V by .5.

.

Actually, that particular GT500 in the video was factory rated at 500 hp for 2008.
IMO, that video means nothing because of one being modified and the other not.

A good video would be a stock 2013 GT500 (rated at 662 hp) vs. the new 2013 CTS-V.

Now that would mean something.

http://2008shelbygt500.com/specs.htm


edit:
I got treed by kdanner ^^^

[D.Johns]

Awe yes, Bretv that screen name looks familiar. When I was looking at my options I stumbled across your car in some old threads on some web sites. I probably would have built an 03 Cobra had I not picked up at BIW Cobra Jet instead. Doing the math it had the HP to run the numbers and lord knows we have enough 4.6 stuff laying around the shop. I could have been racing sooner but the CJ was just too good to pass up and my wife really gave me a crappy look when I said cut up my 50k mile 03 Cobra.

I thank you for all the effort you put into getting the car accepted into the guide. I'm still surprised no one has built another one to make some waves with it.