How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

you dont have to be living in the 60's.......just put the Horse Power Factors up to where they belong and all could be well. If the factor puts the new cars out of stock at 7.5 lbs per HP....so be it. Let them run S/S instead. We all know they are a joke in AA, A and B. Just wait until some of the other engine combos hit the track and listen to the squealing.

I was looking at a 1968 issue of Dragster yesterday. It showed A at 7.5. When did it get changed to 8? Maybe A should be changed back and AA should be 7.0?

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Heh heh....Go ahead Drooze......HAMMER that Mo Fo for all its worth. I just hope it passes teard down....Oh wait.....NHRA will factor you and the rest anyway even without tear down. Lets see how fast those package cars will really run and while we are at it lets see some Ford racers with "Balls" in the 2008 and 2010 Mustangs do the same thing. Its the ONLY way the AHFS will work.

Why just the new cars? The only way the AHFS will work is if everyone goes wide open.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I was looking at a 1968 issue of Dragster yesterday. It showed A at 7.5. When did it get changed to 8? Maybe A should be changed back and AA should be 7.0?

A long time agoi back in the 7 inch tire days

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Why just the new cars? The only way the AHFS will work is if everyone goes wide open.

Because the new package cars that were NEVER even street legal will ruin the established older muscle cars in the same class with their "Flim Flam" HP ratings. The older combos have been beat on for years. These new combos havent even been maxed out yet.

[hemidup]

I'm sure the new factory race car packages will be under close scrutinization by NHRA at the start of the year. I'm positive that a Ford Mustang or Mopar Challenger will hit the trigger point and probably run fast enough to call for an automatic adjustment. Last year Irv Johns AA/SA Challenger ran 1.16 under (1.15 is the trigger point) and this year with the new index, that would put him 1.13 under the index with the same 9.74 pass. I'm glad Irv didn't run his car in A/SA. So who will be the first DP to push the supercharged Fords into SS? I know John Force/Robert Hight have their AA/SA Mustang completed and if John gets behind the wheel, you know his right foot will stay planted to the rug.

As far as the Gen III Hemi's are concerned. NHRA will first look at the engine family average. I don't know how many 6.1 SRT Magnum's, Charger's or Chrysler 300 C's are running in stock, but I've seen those 4400-4600lb cars run mid 12's to low 13's with just a CAI and a good tune, plus those cars just got factored 5hp for 2010 for having a 370 cubed Hemi.

Next NHRA will look at the class/engine average. That means they'll look at the Hemi's with the same specific engine combo, transmission type and body style which will only factor the DP cars and not the rest of the cars in that particular class. I don't know what classes the DP will finally end up at after the shuffle, only time will tell.

HP:WT ratio? These DP's aren't as light as some folks figure. In order to make the minimum weight for the class, we figure we only have 320 lbs to work with and the car still needs a cage, full rear end, brakes and suspention, driveshaft, fluids, etc, etc. I'm guessing and this is only a guess as of now, that the finished car should come in between 3400-3450lbs. Given that weight and Drooze gets the 3.25% he's looking for, that'll still put his car at 8.43 at 3400lbs.

[Irv Johns]

HEMIDUP::

HP:WT ratio? These DP's aren't as light as some folks figure. In order to make the minimum weight for the class, we figure we only have 320 lbs to work with and the car still needs a cage, full rear end, brakes and suspention, driveshaft, fluids, etc, etc. I'm guessing and this is only a guess as of now, that the finished car should come in between 3400-3450lbs. Given that weight and Drooze gets the 3.25% he's looking for, that'll still put his car at 8.43 at 3400lbs.

you need to use 3100 as shipping weight on the DragPak with the 6.1 engine which equals 3100lb, 403 HP, equals 7.69

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Because the new package cars that were NEVER even street legal will ruin the established older muscle cars in the same class with their "Flim Flam" HP ratings. The older combos have been beat on for years. These new combos havent even been maxed out yet.

What about the 68 Hemi Darts and Cuda's? They weren't street legal either and at one time considered a new car. I also see 10hp was added to the 426 Hemi for 2010. Who back in 68 thought a SS/AH Dart was ever going to run in the 8's?

I wouldn't think these new factory race cars should effect the older muscle cars once NHRA establishes the class/engine average based on the specific engine combo, transmission type and body style. Only time will tell though cause that call will still be at the discretion of NHRA.

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by Irv Johns

HEMIDUP::

HP:WT ratio? These DP's aren't as light as some folks figure. In order to make the minimum weight for the class, we figure we only have 320 lbs to work with and the car still needs a cage, full rear end, brakes and suspention, driveshaft, fluids, etc, etc. I'm guessing and this is only a guess as of now, that the finished car should come in between 3400-3450lbs. Given that weight and Drooze gets the 3.25% he's looking for, that'll still put his car at 8.43 at 3400lbs.

you need to use 3100 as shipping weight on the DragPak with the 6.1 engine which equals 3100lb, 403 HP, equals 7.69

Gotcha. When I talked with Doug, he told me 3250. I was just going off of what he said.....Back to the drawing board.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by hemidup

What about the 68 Hemi Darts and Cuda's? They weren't street legal either and at one time considered a new car. I also see 10hp was added to the 426 Hemi for 2010. Who back in 68 thought a SS/AH Dart was ever going to run in the 8's?

I wouldn't think these new factory race cars should effect the older muscle cars once NHRA establishes the class/engine average based on the specific engine combo, transmission type and body style. Only time will tell though cause that call will still be at the discretion of NHRA.

the 68 hemi cars were never in stock, they were in superstock because they weren't street cars. thats what the big gripe is here

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

DK
I would be happy to explain it.....but I have some caveats...Im sure youll understand some...

I would actually like and enjoy some feedback from people outside our group (i.e. the DP teams its already been shared with)

1)I will submit you a "brief" of the plan via PM, the entire plan is 6 pages of analysis so I dont think you want to muddle through that.

2)You agree not to disclose the details to anyone outside of us (i.e. mums the word)

3)You post back to this thread your general impression although not the details but one of the 3 opinions listed here, a)Hogwash and the raving of a lunatic b)The plan has potential c)Its genius and I should abandon racing and buy an evil genius lair

4)You share back with me via PM the observations and potential pitfalls you see in the plan as well as point out any incorrect assumptions.

Id love to like I said.....Ive had a hard time finding someone whos opinion I would value in an "outside" perspective.

Let me know either here or PM and Ill send it over.

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by DK FRAZIER

WOW !!!!!!! Your plan is 3.25 hits at the first 3 races ????
You have got to be kidding ???
Please explain your theory on this