roush cars in stock and super stock

[Sean Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Tim Kish

To implement boost control as a tech control is actually an unfair regulation on a forced induction engine. As boost is a measure of manifold back pressure you can increase the boost level in the manifold by changing the cam profile - LESS Lift or duration. You have made no changes to the blower/turbo at this point but the boost gauge reading has changed. Relative to performance this may/may not help, higher manifold pressure yields higher airflow velocity but also labors the charger more which creates added heat - its a function of the engine combination. My point is it is not directly indicative of power output. I am working on an application now that runs 8psi boost on the low power variant and 5 psi boost on the high power variant. Exact same supercharger system, drive ratio, etc - the only hardware difference is the cam profile. The low boost version makes 50Hp more.

A regulation on boost level would be no different then to limiting all NA applications to the factory rev limit (Nobody runs higher RPM than the OEM do they?)

If they did limit boost than it sounds like your goal would be to find the best cam and boost combo to make the car run fast with the limitations set. Why would this not be a great way of limiting these cars adn still being a competitive combo in the class? Boost does not necesarily have to be limited to factory, so there could still be room for performance gains.

SSDiv6,

Is there a thread on classracer that you don't pop into and know EVERYTHING about. Or talk like it.

[SPS]

SSDiv6

Since you obviously weren't there competing, the NHRA didn't get the factoring of the rotary right the first time. And at best, it's a guestimate today. (not that I have any fault with the rotary, that wasn't my point)

As for Ingersoll's Pinto, he made enough to pay for the parts he used up. (and yes, I know he didn't have an intercooler on the Pinto). The point is, he COULD turn up the wick when he wanted, the rest couldn't.

I still don't believe the sanctioning body Tech has the manpower to accurately factor these engines and still keep things fair for everybody else.

FJ

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by SPS

SSDiv6

Since you obviously weren't there competing, the NHRA didn't get the factoring of the rotary right the first time. And at best, it's a guestimate today. (not that I have any fault with the rotary, that wasn't my point)

As for Ingersoll's Pinto, he made enough to pay for the parts he used up. (and yes, I know he didn't have an intercooler on the Pinto). The point is, he COULD turn up the wick when he wanted, the rest couldn't.

I still don't believe the sanctioning body Tech has the manpower to accurately factor these engines and still keep things fair for everybody else.

FJ

No, was not directly competing at the time in the Midified classes, but was involved with building and doing R&D on rotary engines for IMSA , SCCA and NHRA. Also, very familiar with the class due to the fact I had friends competing in Modified Production and Gas.

Yes, it is Tech manpower issue, but not the number of Tech people available. The problem is having Tech people with the technical background and knowledge to deal properly with evolving technologies and not waiting for the technology to arrive and then deal with it.

With all due respect to the current Tech staff, and not demeaming any of them, their background is based on early technology and carburated cars. This is probably the reason why NHRA has not allowed the use of F.I. in classes such as Pro Stock, which racers such as W.J. has advocated the use for some time.

[dwydendorf]

I think some people may be missing the big picture here. The car companies want to get involved in NHRA and IHRA Stock and Super Stock. Their involvement can only insure that Stock and Super Stock will be showcased and will be around for a very long time. After all this was the reason I became involved in Stock and Super Stock back in the late 1960's and early 1970's and probably the reason most of you did too. If everyone becomes paranoid before a single car goes down the track , the negative hoopla will only kill off any interest the car companies have in Stock and Super Stock. FJ, you should know first hand how this can benefit all the racers in Stock and Super Stock. Didn't SPS benefit from the involvement of Oldsmobile in Super Stock back in the 80's and 90's? Throughout the years there have always been killer cars in certain classes and most racers will adapt just like they always have. You will either spend more money and work harder to beat them or you will find a different class to run in. Does this sound a little like SS/AH at this years U.S. Nationals where the Westcotts were a tenth faster than anyone else in the class? How is this any different than it has always been? Don't kill off a good thing before it even gets started!

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

I think some people may be missing the big picture here. The car companies want to get involved in NHRA and IHRA Stock and Super Stock. Their involvement can only insure that Stock and Super Stock will be showcased and will be around for a very long time. After all this was the reason I became involved in Stock and Super Stock back in the late 1960's and early 1970's and probably the reason most of you did too. If everyone becomes paranoid before a single car goes down the track , the negative hoopla will only kill off any interest the car companies have in Stock and Super Stock. FJ, you should know first hand how this can benefit all the racers in Stock and Super Stock. Didn't SPS benefit from the involvement of Oldsmobile in Super Stock back in the 80's and 90's? Throughout the years there have always been killer cars in certain classes and most racers will adapt just like they always have. You will either spend more money and work harder to beat them or you will find a different class to run in. Does this sound a little like SS/AH at this years U.S. Nationals where the Westcotts were a tenth faster than anyone else in the class? How is this any different than it has always been? Don't kill off a good thing before it even gets started!

Yes it Can be good for Stock and SS , Yes FJ or others will benefit from factory support or more cars built but what you are reading is honest experience from racers with an interest in doing it better this time. Doing it with better parity and maybe fewer frustrations caused by "on the fly" rule changes or none at all from NHRA.
I dont believe the factories will be spooked by some of our comments. In fact I bet they actually think about them if they even know they exist....I know there were meetings where groups of the big three reps talked about the reentry to racing so I bet they are discussing these issues already...

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Sean Kennedy

SSDiv6,

Is there a thread on classracer that you don't pop into and know EVERYTHING about. Or talk like it.

...and what's your point?