Ways to check on the use of illegal devices - Page 7

Cglrcng · 01-28-2024, 06:55 PM

My last word on the subject...There are a million ways to cheat. And a million and a half ways to get caught..

Every FRC match played begins with a 12 to 45 second pre-programmed autonomous period, drivers behind the start line in a very difficult task based game, cannot touch the controls except the emergency stop button, our cars in a straight line could easily be raced tge same way...AI is a whole lot smarter, and faster learning too, but then we are no longer drivers, we are riders, or they simply remove us (the weak link), from the game altogether.

That is no fun.

1320racer · 01-28-2024, 07:09 PM

everything you need is right here been in use for decades!

https://moretraction.com/

https://moretraction.com/products/drag-racing/

Cglrcng · 01-28-2024, 07:45 PM

#2...In Robots as in many newer autos these days the CAN system is used, designed & developed by the auto industry, but perfected for the auto industry by extreme experimentation by the FIRST and other organizations by use for over 3 decades before it was actively used in the cars of today. Just plug in to any CAN system network (Star or ladder type setup), and you can in seconds discover every device in the network, or that is connected to any device that is connected to that network, wired or wireless!

But, with all that yes, go watch the Footbrake Challenge, or watch a footbrake artist at work, nothing electronic can beat trip zip green (.000) and dead on the dial. Perfect that, and you have the class racing world by the tail....Or, just go race an electronics are all allowed class, and break out that checkbook and wallet, as you will need it!

Oh yeah, did you know hacking into a secure network is a Federal Crime. Forget about breaking the FIRST Rules, you could have a lot more to worry about than your team is now disqualified, and you have 30 minutes to vacate the facility, your team loses, loses all season points, and ummm, we shall see about the other penalties on Monday!

Behind every pc of software ever written, and every pc of hardware ever built is a fallible human. Now we must fear AI will replace us soon enough. Well ,I don't personally, I am near the end of my lifecycle, so I am going to get back to hammering the tree and improving my car legally to run dead on, otherwise my left leg knows where the brake pedal is and I am watching you from the 1/8th mile marker out to that last inch from my slow moving 3 mirrored fishbowl anyway.

And cheaters never prosper, eventually many if not all will be caught, or karma will catch them. But, it is NHRA's responsibility to catch, police, & punish, & ours by the the book to protest that which we think is wrong and that comes with risks, both financially and personally, which is sometimes necessary, but should not be done (or accepted by NHRA), if done for a competitive advantage.

You could seek for decades for each avail. cheater device, and they are being invented, designed, and improved upon daily. Waste your time improving your own game, it will make you happier and less suspicious of the competitors surrounding you and make all that technology spent on moot.

B/S 428 · 01-28-2024, 10:47 PM

There's really a simple solution that has been mentioned on here before, all winners (could be) subject to teardown/inspection. I had to do this 3x at Indy before they'd give me my class win Wally. They could even go a bit further and tag the last 8 cars in the eliminator, subject to inspection. Brian Seaberg 627

James Perrone · 01-29-2024, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B/S 428

There's really a simple solution that has been mentioned on here before, all winners (could be) subject to teardown/inspection. I had to do this 3x at Indy before they'd give me my class win Wally. They could even go a bit further and tag the last 8 cars in the eliminator, subject to inspection. Brian Seaberg 627

But you kept going 120 under correct?
They ain’t tearing down ****
Nhra is more worried about you stickers … to not pay you than tech

Bobby DiDomenico · 01-29-2024, 10:39 AM

QUOTE=Cglrcng;692317]
"Have I thought about it, sure, so I looked it up...not permitted. Do I have one installed? Absolutely not, but last week I was installing front end parts a 10 pc kit on my neighbors 2004 Toyota Sienna Van, and proudly right there in both front calipers (that I needed to remove to uninstall and hang up next to the caliper were 2 ABS brake sensors, about the circumference of a nickle, and 1" thick, and low and behold, they are simply wired wheel encoder magnet pickups counting the rotor vanes. A simple wheel encoder already installed on that vehicle stock.

I have no idea if that vehicle is even in the guide, but they are a part of the stock ABS brake system and could easily though illegally be used to determine actual track position accurately as long as it does not do wheelies.. lol.[/QUOTE]

I believe Pontiac used the ABS sensor to trip the Low Tire Pressure light on our 2004 Grand Prix. If one wheel was rotating at a different speed than the other 3 the light came on.

B/S 428 · 01-29-2024, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Perrone

But you kept going 120 under correct?
They ain’t tearing down ****
Nhra is more worried about you stickers … to not pay you than tech

NHRA would only have to threaten to do teardown on winners and RU, they could also just do a thorough technical inspection and look at electronics for the last 8 in the eliminator.

Fireofficer74 · 01-29-2024, 11:56 AM

Do any of yeall know how traction control works?

Traction contronl does not make ones car more consistent.

Its a crutch to attempt to stop wheel spin.

Billy Nees · 01-29-2024, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B/S 428

NHRA would only have to threaten to do teardown on winners and RU, they could also just do a thorough technical inspection and look at electronics for the last 8 in the eliminator.

Or they could just go back to the old ruling requiring that a "data-logger" be completely disconnected during eliminations. That should be easy enough to check in the staging lanes.

01-29-2024, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;692334]Or they could just go back to the old ruling requiring that a "data-logger" be completely disconnected during eliminations. That should be easy enough to check in the staging lanes.[/QUOTE

How do you separate the data recorder from the EFI on a new car?
I would be more worried about ignition.

01-28-2024, 06:55 PM	#61
Cglrcng Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: Kingman, AZ Posts: 404 Likes: 1,491 Liked 330 Times in 183 Posts	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices My last word on the subject...There are a million ways to cheat. And a million and a half ways to get caught.. Every FRC match played begins with a 12 to 45 second pre-programmed autonomous period, drivers behind the start line in a very difficult task based game, cannot touch the controls except the emergency stop button, our cars in a straight line could easily be raced tge same way...AI is a whole lot smarter, and faster learning too, but then we are no longer drivers, we are riders, or they simply remove us (the weak link), from the game altogether. That is no fun. __________________ Gary Lucier - 7832 STK. / 7832 E.T. EF/S Slow Sled. I am, but a simple test of your true patience. So, do all the really "Big Wheelies" you can!

01-28-2024, 07:09 PM	#62
1320racer VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,628 Likes: 160 Liked 759 Times in 379 Posts	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices everything you need is right here been in use for decades! https://moretraction.com/ https://moretraction.com/products/drag-racing/

01-28-2024, 07:45 PM	#63
Cglrcng Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: Kingman, AZ Posts: 404 Likes: 1,491 Liked 330 Times in 183 Posts	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices #2...In Robots as in many newer autos these days the CAN system is used, designed & developed by the auto industry, but perfected for the auto industry by extreme experimentation by the FIRST and other organizations by use for over 3 decades before it was actively used in the cars of today. Just plug in to any CAN system network (Star or ladder type setup), and you can in seconds discover every device in the network, or that is connected to any device that is connected to that network, wired or wireless! But, with all that yes, go watch the Footbrake Challenge, or watch a footbrake artist at work, nothing electronic can beat trip zip green (.000) and dead on the dial. Perfect that, and you have the class racing world by the tail....Or, just go race an electronics are all allowed class, and break out that checkbook and wallet, as you will need it! Oh yeah, did you know hacking into a secure network is a Federal Crime. Forget about breaking the FIRST Rules, you could have a lot more to worry about than your team is now disqualified, and you have 30 minutes to vacate the facility, your team loses, loses all season points, and ummm, we shall see about the other penalties on Monday! Behind every pc of software ever written, and every pc of hardware ever built is a fallible human. Now we must fear AI will replace us soon enough. Well ,I don't personally, I am near the end of my lifecycle, so I am going to get back to hammering the tree and improving my car legally to run dead on, otherwise my left leg knows where the brake pedal is and I am watching you from the 1/8th mile marker out to that last inch from my slow moving 3 mirrored fishbowl anyway. And cheaters never prosper, eventually many if not all will be caught, or karma will catch them. But, it is NHRA's responsibility to catch, police, & punish, & ours by the the book to protest that which we think is wrong and that comes with risks, both financially and personally, which is sometimes necessary, but should not be done (or accepted by NHRA), if done for a competitive advantage. You could seek for decades for each avail. cheater device, and they are being invented, designed, and improved upon daily. Waste your time improving your own game, it will make you happier and less suspicious of the competitors surrounding you and make all that technology spent on moot. __________________ Gary Lucier - 7832 STK. / 7832 E.T. EF/S Slow Sled. I am, but a simple test of your true patience. So, do all the really "Big Wheelies" you can!

01-28-2024, 10:47 PM	#64
B/S 428 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 87 Likes: 18 Liked 154 Times in 34 Posts	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices There's really a simple solution that has been mentioned on here before, all winners (could be) subject to teardown/inspection. I had to do this 3x at Indy before they'd give me my class win Wally. They could even go a bit further and tag the last 8 cars in the eliminator, subject to inspection. Brian Seaberg 627

01-29-2024, 10:39 AM	#66
Bobby DiDomenico Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 923 Likes: 102 Liked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices QUOTE=Cglrcng;692317] "Have I thought about it, sure, so I looked it up...not permitted. Do I have one installed? Absolutely not, but last week I was installing front end parts a 10 pc kit on my neighbors 2004 Toyota Sienna Van, and proudly right there in both front calipers (that I needed to remove to uninstall and hang up next to the caliper were 2 ABS brake sensors, about the circumference of a nickle, and 1" thick, and low and behold, they are simply wired wheel encoder magnet pickups counting the rotor vanes. A simple wheel encoder already installed on that vehicle stock. I have no idea if that vehicle is even in the guide, but they are a part of the stock ABS brake system and could easily though illegally be used to determine actual track position accurately as long as it does not do wheelies.. lol.[/QUOTE] I believe Pontiac used the ABS sensor to trip the Low Tire Pressure light on our 2004 Grand Prix. If one wheel was rotating at a different speed than the other 3 the light came on.

01-29-2024, 11:56 AM	#68
Fireofficer74 Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Davie, Florida Posts: 158 Likes: 79 Liked 47 Times in 36 Posts	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices Do any of yeall know how traction control works? Traction contronl does not make ones car more consistent. Its a crutch to attempt to stop wheel spin.

01-29-2024, 12:28 PM	#70
Barry Polley Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ways to check on the use of illegal devices [QUOTE=Billy Nees;692334]Or they could just go back to the old ruling requiring that a "data-logger" be completely disconnected during eliminations. That should be easy enough to check in the staging lanes.[/QUOTE How do you separate the data recorder from the EFI on a new car? I would be more worried about ignition.