Season averages

[Doug Hoven]

I wonder if anyone that had to play "the game" ever stopped to think that maybe they have to play "the game" because their combo is soft... The only thing lowering the indexes is going to do, is widen the gap between those with money, and those without. There are lots of cars, for example, those playing "the game" that, if the indexes were moved .3, can, for example, move their distributor, pull out some oil, un-pin the secondaries on their holley's, etc, and easily gain back .2 if not the full .3, and still be a 1.0 under player. Unfortunately, young racers like me, that can't afford to go to engine builder x,y or z and ask for a 1.2+ second under engine that somehow magically passes tech, would be forced to accept the fact that my .5-.6 under car, is now a .2-.3 under car, and if I somehow found those .3 back, I'm still only a .5 under car. But hey, at least the rich guys with the fast cars could then run their cars all out.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Doug Hoven

I wonder if anyone that had to play "the game" ever stopped to think that maybe they have to play "the game" because their combo is soft... The only thing lowering the indexes is going to do, is widen the gap between those with money, and those without. There are lots of cars, for example, those playing "the game" that, if the indexes were moved .3, can, for example, move their distributor, pull out some oil, un-pin the secondaries on their holley's, etc, and easily gain back .2 if not the full .3, and still be a 1.0 under player. Unfortunately, young racers like me, that can't afford to go to engine builder x,y or z and ask for a 1.2+ second under engine that somehow magically passes tech, would be forced to accept the fact that my .5-.6 under car, is now a .2-.3 under car, and if I somehow found those .3 back, I'm still only a .5 under car. But hey, at least the rich guys with the fast cars could then run their cars all out.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, I feel that the argument that you have to be rich to go fast is weak.

[Doug Hoven]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, I feel that the argument that you have to be rich to go fast is weak.

I understand their is flaw with that statement. There are definitely some combos than can be done and go fast on a budget. However, the amount of fast cars currently being raced that are high dollar definitely outweighs the number of "dime rockets" being raced. I think it is a much more effective solution to give a handful of combinations horsepower rather than pushing the slow guys out of the game.

[GTX JOHN]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, I feel that the argument that you have to be rich to go fast is weak.

Agreed = You can be rich and still be slow.
I know.

[Greg Gay]

A little bit of history on the AHFS: This was actually a racer request, or at least that of the vocal minority. At one time, you never knew when and if you would get a hp adjustment. There was a “secret committee” who made the determination. Then on this, or the forum out of MN, the racers started discussing a system of calculating hp adjustments. I won’t say that Jeff Teuton was the leader, but he was more the “administrator” gathering the information, determining what was the majority opinion (of those who commented), and presenting it to NHRA. So, we got what we asked for. It’s been adjusted over the years, but basically it was a racer request.
Also, “hiding all that you got” is nothing new. If you look at the mph of Class Winners for results from the ‘70’s, you’ll see that many winners had extremely low mph for the ETs that they ran.
So, I don’t know the answer to the sandbagging problem, but it does seem more prevalent now than ever.

[GTS340]

I would fair guess the news will come Friday before the NHRA office closes for the year. I'm sure someone(s) worked hard or requested to get Hp off. I'll be honest I sent a letter to St. Nick..

Paul

[James Perrone]

Remember there is no hp decrease on combo once it had earned HP any time in its life
Also hp was given on the average of 85under and they averaged the % over 85under

Now hp is given to a combo on a % of the combos fastest run of the year
It’s gonna be interesting what combo gets The Hammer on HP
It could will be ugly
Question is will the new system even the playing field or ruin peoples combos
We will see soon

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by James Perrone

Question is will the new system even the playing field or ruin peoples combos

Well ya know Ponko, If NHRA would stop giving enhancements to certain "people's combos" then maybe they wouldn't get ruined.

[Billy Nees]

Wow! Two posts in a row written by two Racers that I have a great deal of respect for (believe-it-or-not!) coming at this from two completely different sides of the discussion/argument!

Barry knows that he has a great combo which has been helped by heads and an intake/carb that, although "legal replacements" are far better than what came on the combo. I can't blame him for picking such a combo to spend his money on and (to his credit) Barry isn't afraid to spend his money in the right places. Now Barry could have built a '70 402/350/330 or a '71 402/300/315 and I doubt very much that he would be wanting the indexes moved .3. Barry knowingly picked the "better" combo and ran with it knowing that he could (more-than-likely) go fast enough to hurt himself.

Doug knows that his combo ain't the best, a '70 350/300/286 but it's what he could afford to "scrounge" together while working part time and going to college. Now Doug could have built a '70 350/250/224 with the carb that never came on a car that NHRA (somehow) made available and I'm pretty sure that he would be wanting the indexes moved .3.

What I'm hoping to make clear here is that NHRA has to come up with a way to expedite(?) satisfying this crusty old poop and this young punk without losing them while at the same time encouraging other Racers to come in or come back to the fold.
They need to react to what they've done to "enhanced" combos and "no-longer- competitive" (yeah, we need Oldsmobiles and Ramblers Too!) combos far quicker and in a "commonsense" way. Even if it means having to talk to Real Racers, not just their buddies.

OBTW NHRA, I'm always available and willing to discuss combos but I've been known to be a bit harsh at times. ;-)

[B Parker]

Billy just to remind you again ( for about the fourth time) I bought my car 4 years ago as an already running Stocker with that engine combo in it for 20 grand. It may not be your cup of tea but for me it was too cheap to pass up. And I had waited long enough at my local junk yards for you to show up and help me find my future Stocker.

Sorry Billy but your idea of what Stockers are left the building long ago and it's not coming back. I had nothing to do with it but I accept it and you should too. Or get professional help.

As you well know it's not just about spending money. I've had to many racers who don't work on their cars nor are willing to spend any money on them tell me their combo aren't very good!! One thing I've learned in 45 years of doing this is you can't make your car faster letting it sit in your trailer from race to race.

I think it's great that Doug was able to build a car on a budget while going to school. But just because he isn't able to run 1.20 under doesn't mean his combo is not able to. It's an easy 1.20 under car with time and money. Not saying he has to spend the money. All you have to do is be able to run the index to win.

I don't think changing the index's is the real problem. The AHFS needs to change so when you do go fast say up until about 1.30 the HP hit is not combo wrecking. The HP percentage for under the index's needs to change.
The .85 under average is a joke to get hit HP. If you didn't think so before Indy should have been eye opening. Bump it to at least 1 under and drop the percentage of HP hits you get all the way up to 1.30 under. The 1970 402 Nova's had to add 130 lbs in weight with just one hit 1.21 under in really good air. For an example. It's now rated 15HP more than the 1970 Camaro's.

You might get some of us racers who still care about the ET performance to put the hammer down. BP






.