Billet cams and lifter supply

bubski · 11-03-2022, 11:39 AM

Bubski’s thinking !! It sure would be more cost effective and in the spirit of stock eliminator rules to go back to the valve spring rule and forget about all of this nonsense with exotic materials and changing the rules to be closer to SS !! How can it be possibly cheaper to redesign your entire valve train ?? All that needs to be done is go back to what used to work in Stock !! Why can’t change ever go backwards to what worked previously ?? Why does change always move toward more problems and expense ??

Paul Wong · 11-03-2022, 01:34 PM

I cant agree more. Put the valve spring rule back in place and it will make all this go away. We even have two steps to kill the valve spring pressure a bit before tear down now.

I can only imagine all the letters of superseded valve springs appearing over night.

Billy Nees · 11-03-2022, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wong

I can only imagine all the letters of superseded valve springs appearing over night.

It won't come to that if they can come up with something somewhat easy to police. Maybe stock dia. and height +/- something and no more than 180/200 on the seat.

Pat6868 · 11-03-2022, 02:24 PM

IHRA Pure stock rules; problem solved.

11-03-2022, 03:07 PM

How much money will it cost when the 500.00 roller lifter explodes and it destroys the short block? Then we will need the parts to complement the lifters. Maybe titanium retainers, valves, etc. how much are Jesel lifters? 4K and up? Then we need keyed slot bushings for the good lifters. But this will fix everything, right. If I had to wait 14 months for tool steel lifters, I’d be trying to make a standard solid lifter work. Cam profile, spring combo, break in procedure and so on. Maybe you have to run softer profile cams so they last? Work with what you have? I’d take this route if I wanted to race and not sit out.

Remember when people on the board said if we just all had solid lifters it would be so much cheaper and easier to find and police? I guess all those people retried or quit racing? The same bullchit was said about roller rockers. Look where we are now?

Keep making these cars resemble SS rules cars and the NHRA can just cancel out the stock class and save a bunch of money and effort. They basically don’t want us there anyway. Your helping their cause by coming on here and asking for SS rules for our engines.

Forget about pure stock rules and enforcement. That ship sailed in the 80’s.

People here suggest a valve spring rule. That will even the playing field.
What happens when someone with a unlimited budget tells their engine builder to make that work no matter what the cost. Then you have put the cost even higher for racers to keep up.

If you want roller lifters in stock, run a car that came with them

littlemanjoe · 11-03-2022, 04:02 PM

To me the madness needs to stop.
Repeat after me......Stock Eliminator.

Honestly we should be held to the same materials and type of lifters the cars came with. That's what makes Stock Eliminator so much fun.

If you want Super Stock options run Super Stock.

john ancona · 11-03-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

How much money will it cost when the 500.00 roller lifter explodes and it destroys the short block? Then we will need the parts to complement the lifters. Maybe titanium retainers, valves, etc. how much are Jesel lifters? 4K and up? Then we need keyed slot bushings for the good lifters. But this will fix everything, right. If I had to wait 14 months for tool steel lifters, I’d be trying to make a standard solid lifter work. Cam profile, spring combo, break in procedure and so on. Maybe you have to run softer profile cams so they last? Work with what you have? I’d take this route if I wanted to race and not sit out.

Remember when people on the board said if we just all had solid lifters it would be so much cheaper and easier to find and police? I guess all those people retried or quit racing? The same bullchit was said about roller rockers. Look where we are now?

Keep making these cars resemble SS rules cars and the NHRA can just cancel out the stock class and save a bunch of money and effort. They basically don’t want us there anyway. Your helping their cause by coming on here and asking for SS rules for our engines.

Forget about pure stock rules and enforcement. That ship sailed in the 80’s.

People here suggest a valve spring rule. That will even the playing field.
What happens when someone with a unlimited budget tells their engine builder to make that work no matter what the cost. Then you have put the cost even higher for racers to keep up.

If you want roller lifters in stock, run a car that came with them

I knew it would only be a matter of time before you once again came up with your one sided reasons as you have in the past , you may not look the fool if you did not make up your one sided scenarios ,and look at today's facts ! When you use (someone) as you do that is a assumption of which you seem to have many , and not all are facts , I and others agree with you are cars are closer to super stock than ever , with that said
they are what they are today ,and today going forward is all that matters .

11-03-2022, 05:17 PM

Look the fool? What did I say that’s one sided? What facts did I make up that’s not true? Roller lifters don’t break? People didn’t push for solid lifter years ago and now they are not good enough we need rollers? Sorry this displeases you. I thought this is an open forum with a free exchange of ideas. Just one opinion ( my own ) I’m not for the roller lifters in non roller combos. That’s all. Have a nice day

Some peoples moving forward may not be others ideas of moving forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john ancona

I knew it would only be a matter of time before you once again came up with your one sided reasons as you have in the past , you may not look the fool if you did not make up your one sided scenarios ,and look at today's facts ! When you use (someone) as you do that is a assumption of which you seem to have many , and not all are facts , I and others agree with you are cars are closer to super stock than ever , with that said
they are what they are today ,and today going forward is all that matters .

nhramnl · 11-04-2022, 01:15 PM

I always get a laugh when I see this argument. It always makes me think of what has taken place in the past. Remember Super Mod and the Econo classes? They were going to be a cheap and simple way for guys to have fun without spending a fortune. And now, they're ridiculously expensive and there's nobody in them. Super Stock? I remember when a decently competitive SS car involved a $30,000 total investment. Nowadays, that won't buy you an engine. I think the real problem is that many racers see three options, when there are only two. Option 1 is quit: Option 2 is spend enough to keep up with the guys who don't CARE how much it costs, and Option 3 is to keep bitching, but refuse to spend with the big dogs.

tavirace · 11-04-2022, 02:06 PM

I know I'll be classed as a lunatic but I see is the cause of all this fuss and expense is the obsession in stock and super/stock with UNDER. The index for for super gas is 9.90 the index for G/SA is 12.00 that's how it should stay. It's of no value to go 9.20 in super gas it could be of no value to go 11.20 in G/SA. In a heads up run you could still let it fly and you could still have class eliminations but do away with the qualifying ego trip, it could reduce expenses and create a new element in the game. Otherwise the never ending rule change and technology roller coaster is endless and for many they just can't keep up with it.

11-03-2022, 11:39 AM	#1
bubski Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 228 Likes: 14 Liked 165 Times in 60 Posts	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply Bubski’s thinking !! It sure would be more cost effective and in the spirit of stock eliminator rules to go back to the valve spring rule and forget about all of this nonsense with exotic materials and changing the rules to be closer to SS !! How can it be possibly cheaper to redesign your entire valve train ?? All that needs to be done is go back to what used to work in Stock !! Why can’t change ever go backwards to what worked previously ?? Why does change always move toward more problems and expense ??

11-03-2022, 01:34 PM	#2
Paul Wong Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 384 Likes: 101 Liked 419 Times in 85 Posts	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply I cant agree more. Put the valve spring rule back in place and it will make all this go away. We even have two steps to kill the valve spring pressure a bit before tear down now. I can only imagine all the letters of superseded valve springs appearing over night.

11-03-2022, 02:24 PM	#4
Pat6868 Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 103 Likes: 6 Liked 93 Times in 29 Posts	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply IHRA Pure stock rules; problem solved.

11-03-2022, 03:07 PM	#5
Todd Hoven Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply How much money will it cost when the 500.00 roller lifter explodes and it destroys the short block? Then we will need the parts to complement the lifters. Maybe titanium retainers, valves, etc. how much are Jesel lifters? 4K and up? Then we need keyed slot bushings for the good lifters. But this will fix everything, right. If I had to wait 14 months for tool steel lifters, I’d be trying to make a standard solid lifter work. Cam profile, spring combo, break in procedure and so on. Maybe you have to run softer profile cams so they last? Work with what you have? I’d take this route if I wanted to race and not sit out. Remember when people on the board said if we just all had solid lifters it would be so much cheaper and easier to find and police? I guess all those people retried or quit racing? The same bullchit was said about roller rockers. Look where we are now? Keep making these cars resemble SS rules cars and the NHRA can just cancel out the stock class and save a bunch of money and effort. They basically don’t want us there anyway. Your helping their cause by coming on here and asking for SS rules for our engines. Forget about pure stock rules and enforcement. That ship sailed in the 80’s. People here suggest a valve spring rule. That will even the playing field. What happens when someone with a unlimited budget tells their engine builder to make that work no matter what the cost. Then you have put the cost even higher for racers to keep up. If you want roller lifters in stock, run a car that came with them

11-03-2022, 04:02 PM	#6
littlemanjoe Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: West Layfayette Posts: 125 Likes: 195 Liked 75 Times in 28 Posts	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply To me the madness needs to stop. Repeat after me......Stock Eliminator. Honestly we should be held to the same materials and type of lifters the cars came with. That's what makes Stock Eliminator so much fun. If you want Super Stock options run Super Stock.

11-04-2022, 01:15 PM	#9
nhramnl Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 507 Likes: 8 Liked 358 Times in 83 Posts	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply I always get a laugh when I see this argument. It always makes me think of what has taken place in the past. Remember Super Mod and the Econo classes? They were going to be a cheap and simple way for guys to have fun without spending a fortune. And now, they're ridiculously expensive and there's nobody in them. Super Stock? I remember when a decently competitive SS car involved a $30,000 total investment. Nowadays, that won't buy you an engine. I think the real problem is that many racers see three options, when there are only two. Option 1 is quit: Option 2 is spend enough to keep up with the guys who don't CARE how much it costs, and Option 3 is to keep bitching, but refuse to spend with the big dogs.

11-04-2022, 02:06 PM	#10
tavirace Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 38 Likes: 7 Liked 22 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Billet cams and lifter supply I know I'll be classed as a lunatic but I see is the cause of all this fuss and expense is the obsession in stock and super/stock with UNDER. The index for for super gas is 9.90 the index for G/SA is 12.00 that's how it should stay. It's of no value to go 9.20 in super gas it could be of no value to go 11.20 in G/SA. In a heads up run you could still let it fly and you could still have class eliminations but do away with the qualifying ego trip, it could reduce expenses and create a new element in the game. Otherwise the never ending rule change and technology roller coaster is endless and for many they just can't keep up with it.