Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by SBillinson

It's a proposal to make the class more competitive. It's not the only proposal. There are way too many classes and not enough performance-based competition. Performance is confined to class eliminations and the occasional heads-up run.

The current situation is akin to the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. I need to work hard on my combination and not just throw money at it. There are lots of guys going way fast who don't have all the bells and whistles seen on the cars in the millionaire's club.

I agree that Modified should be taken out of SS. The only reason I included it is they're already part of the class and not enough of them to run on their own. Given the present state of the class, it would be hard to justify taking them out unless NHRA also took out FSS, GT and FWD conversions. That would really kill the class.

I doubt you would find very many that think Stock or Super Stock is an “everyone’s gets a trophy” class. I know I have worked and raced hard to get the ones I have. No gimmes.
If you really believed what you said you would be running your car in comp eliminator. Instead of super stock. There is a class for your combo there. That’s a different world over there and you have to be really fast to play and have a chance to win. Comp has very few cars competing due to the extreme cost. We don’t want stock and super stock to become like comp. Also eliminating anyones class is not a good idea. How would you like it if your class was eliminated making your combo obsolete.
I enjoy racing and do it as a hobby. I don’t do it to make money although it’s nice to win some once in a while. I have won in every series that I race in. NHRA, IHRA and the local association that we have here in Florida.
I do all of my own work. Build my engines, transmission. Set up the rear end gears. I did all the welding and fabrication on my car. I also did the body work and paint. Not many left that do their own work.

[SBillinson]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I doubt you would find very many that think Stock or Super Stock is an “everyone’s gets a trophy” class. I know I have worked and raced hard to get the ones I have. No gimmes.
If you really believed what you said you would be running your car in comp eliminator. Instead of super stock. There is a class for your combo there. That’s a different world over there and you have to be really fast to play and have a chance to win. Comp has very few cars competing due to the extreme cost. We don’t want stock and super stock to become like comp. Also eliminating anyones class is not a good idea. How would you like it if your class was eliminated making your combo obsolete.
I enjoy racing and do it as a hobby. I don’t do it to make money although it’s nice to win some once in a while. I have won in every series that I race in. NHRA, IHRA and the local association that we have here in Florida.
I do all of my own work. Build my engines, transmission. Set up the rear end gears. I did all the welding and fabrication on my car. I also did the body work and paint. Not many left that do their own work.

I do most of my work too, including tig welding and machining. Besides chassis work and other fabrication, I welded my block and heads. I also rebuild my transmissions and set-up differentials.

I do have an engine builder. He's amazing at his craft, and an incredible mentor and friend. He indulges me a bit with my crazy ideas, but he's the one who turned a 20 year old road racing engine into a .70 under piece. Not an easy task. I'm sticking with him despite having a decent little machine shop in my garage. He also builds all of his own stuff, and is bad fast.

I want to race Comp, but I love super stock and stock. When I do begin racing comp, I'll still compete in SS, but probably not Modified.

Combining classes doesn't eliminate anyone, it just makes the class more competitive. Having so many classes, working the ladder and shuffling around to avoid heads-up runs isn't exactly in the spirit of performance. Working hard on you stuff to go faster is the epitome of class racing. There are lots of people who still do that, but in many ways they're competing against themselves. Fewer classes would give everyone a chance to show their stuff, not only the millionaires. It may even draw some spectators and sponsorship.

[Andy Friar]

Originally Posted by SBillinson

I do most of my work too, including tig welding and machining. Besides chassis work and other fabrication, I welded my block and heads. I also rebuild my transmissions and set-up differentials.

I do have an engine builder. He's amazing at his craft, and an incredible mentor and friend. He indulges me a bit with my crazy ideas, but he's the one who turned a 20 year old road racing engine into a .70 under piece. Not an easy task. I'm sticking with him despite having a decent little machine shop in my garage. He also builds all of his own stuff, and is bad fast.

I want to race Comp, but I love super stock and stock. When I do begin racing comp, I'll still compete in SS, but probably not Modified.

Combining classes doesn't eliminate anyone, it just makes the class more competitive. Having so many classes, working the ladder and shuffling around to avoid heads-up runs isn't exactly in the spirit of performance. Working hard on you stuff to go faster is the epitome of class racing. There are lots of people who still do that, but in many ways they're competing against themselves. Fewer classes would give everyone a chance to show their stuff, not only the millionaires. It may even draw some spectators and sponsorship.

I give you kudos for doing most of the work on your own. Very few cats in sportsman/ bracket racing today, let alone STK/ SS that can do that much.

[SBillinson]

Originally Posted by Andy Friar

I give you kudos for doing most of the work on your own. Very few cats in sportsman/ bracket racing today, let alone STK/ SS that can do that much.

Thanks Andy. I'm building a stocker with my son. We'll post in the build section toward the end of the year..

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

If this is REALLY supposed to be a performance (based) eliminator then NHRA needs to have knowledgeable people in the right places to make absolutely certain that the rules (as written) are being followed! And no, not having qualified people in the right places is no excuse. They (NHRA) seems to have plenty of qualified people in place to tech the Pros who have far looser rules than we (S/SS) do. No letting things slide for certain combos (and certain people) and no turning a blind eye to certain "enhancements" (heads) for fear of being hit with a lawsuit.
Start enforcing the rules as written and watch things (cars) slow down.

Ya know, I've gotta bring this thread back after a weekend of B.S.ing at the Dutch.
One of my real "pet peeves" in Stock is this whole "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head deal. When this was "sold" to us ( "us" meaning all Stock Racers, not just those who actually have access to "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder heads), it was "sold" to us under the premise that if an "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head was used it was with a 10 HP penalty over the OEM head. What happened to that? The way this deal is right now, the OEM head and the "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head are considered two COMPLETELY different combos by NHRA with their own AHFS factors! Right now, certain "aftermarket" aluminum head MOPAR combos are factored less than the OEM head combo!
I think that it's time to get back to reality here and either do away with the "aftermarket" aluminum heads and stop discriminating against those Racers who don't have access to them or go back to the original intent of the "rule". The OEM and "aftermarket" head should be considered one combo by the AHFS and if the "aftermarket" head gets an AHFS hit then the OEM head takes the hit and the "aftermarket" head is +10.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know, I've gotta bring this thread back after a weekend of B.S.ing at the Dutch.
One of my real "pet peeves" in Stock is this whole "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head deal. When this was "sold" to us ( "us" meaning all Stock Racers, not just those who actually have access to "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder heads), it was "sold" to us under the premise that if an "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head was used it was with a 10 HP penalty over the OEM head. What happened to that? The way this deal is right now, the OEM head and the "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head are considered two COMPLETELY different combos by NHRA with their own AHFS factors! Right now, certain "aftermarket" aluminum head MOPAR combos are factored less than the OEM head combo!
I think that it's time to get back to reality here and either do away with the "aftermarket" aluminum heads and stop discriminating against those Racers who don't have access to them or go back to the original intent of the "rule". The OEM and "aftermarket" head should be considered one combo by the AHFS and if the "aftermarket" head gets an AHFS hit then the OEM head takes the hit and the "aftermarket" head is +10.

Billy,
Why +10? Didn't we just talk about this in another thread?

Originally Posted by charlie westcott

There is a 559-M2 head on the list.
Thats what I was referring to.
The Mopar alum head looks to be the best candidate to me, but I dont see any reason to use them with a 60# weight penalty.
There is no performance gain, possibly a loss by putting the same port design in an aluminum head.

Stan

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Billy,
Why +10? Didn't we just talk about this in another thread?
Stan

Because that's the way it was originally "sold" to us. The OEM head HP factor or the "aftermarket" aluminum head +10 over the OEM head HP factor.

[dannyboy]

Get a committee:
Bruce Bachelder-
Dave Ley
Current Div. Tech Directors
1 SK/SS rep from each Div,
Have them meet a couple of times to thrash ideas and suggestions, then sit down with Lonnie and devise a plan that is equitable for all concerned.

That would give a broad spectrum to draw from, old school that worked for years and new thinking.
Need to maintain current racers and their offspring as well as bring new blood into the sport.

[richard diorio]

Originally Posted by bert powell

Bring back top stock and top super stock. Top 16 qualifiers race a separate bracket for same money as the rest of field or some other purse. This showcases the performance of the classes and pushes people to run as hard as they can. Flame away!

I liked top stock and superstock

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Get a committee:

Are you running for Congress? Form a committee!
We've got ENOUGH committees!
What has our SRAC committee done for us?
We NEED somebody who knows combos and can read a (rule) book!