Ahfs

[Jim Kaekel]

The only way the AHFS can be made to truly work is by looking at the 1/8 mile, 1,000' E.T.'s and 1/4 mile MPH. When you see someone run 10.80 @ 100 MPH, for example, it's no secret that they're blatantly trying to protect their HP.

[Mike Pearson]

Lowering the index will not help fix the inequalities in the AHFS. That will only help to kill the class even worse that it is now. There is some new blood coming in to the stock and super stock classes but no where near enough to keep the class alive long term. This should not be a rich man only class. I have a slow car and typically qualify near the bottom of the sheet for several reasons. One is my combo is not competitive due to the HP rating. Two is the cost to improve my car would be exorbitant to try to get near the top of the sheet. Three is what is the sense to spend 20-30 thousand dollars on an engine and another 10 thousand on a transmission and converter to race for a $1500 purse. I just won Super stock at the division 2 race in Reynolds Ga several weeks ago. Winners purse was $1500. So far I have gotten $300 in contingency and I expect a few more will pay so a total of approximately $2200 for the win. I spent $320 to enter and another 400 in diesel fuel in the truck. 120 in race fuel. That leaves me about $1400 clear after expenses. I dont do this for the money by the way.
I say raise the indexes 2 tenth and leave the trigger where it is and maybe that might get a few more to hit the trigger. Possibly some retired racers might come back and a few new racers might get started and grow the class back again.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

Lowering the index will not help fix the inequalities in the AHFS. That will only help to kill the class even worse that it is now. There is some new blood coming in to the stock and super stock classes but no where near enough to keep the class alive long term. This should not be a rich man only class. I have a slow car and typically qualify near the bottom of the sheet for several reasons. One is my combo is not competitive due to the HP rating. Two is the cost to improve my car would be exorbitant to try to get near the top of the sheet. Three is what is the sense to spend 20-30 thousand dollars on an engine and another 10 thousand on a transmission and converter to race for a $1500 purse. I just won Super stock at the division 2 race in Reynolds Ga several weeks ago. Winners purse was $1500. So far I have gotten $300 in contingency and I expect a few more will pay so a total of approximately $2200 for the win. I spent $320 to enter and another 400 in diesel fuel in the truck. 120 in race fuel. That leaves me about $1400 clear after expenses. I dont do this for the money by the way.
I say raise the indexes 2 tenth and leave the trigger where it is and maybe that might get a few more to hit the trigger. Possibly some retired racers might come back and a few new racers might get started and grow the class back again.

Mike I hope you just didn't figure out your not going to make money racing. I don't know what combo you run in Stock but what if someone runs your combo wants to go fast and is willing to do the work and spend the money and has the knowledge. And then goes 1.20 under. This isn't T-ball not everyone can put the same time, effort, money and knowledge into their cars as others. So we should punish those that can? It's not all that hard to make almost any combo a one second under car. Yes you may have to spend some money, put some time and effort in. If you don't choose to I don't have a problem with it. But that's your choice. You can spend as much as 10 grand for a converter and trany but you can also go real fast for less than half that amount. I would be in favor of taking a look at the index's in the lower classes that loose that tenth between K and L. In most of the higher classes if you can't go at least one under and you have a heads up you may have spent all that money getting to the track and paying the entrance fee just to get put on the trailer in a heads up race. BP

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Mike I hope you just didn't figure out your not going to make money racing. I don't know what combo you run in Stock but what if someone runs your combo wants to go fast and is willing to do the work and spend the money and has the knowledge. And then goes 1.20 under. This isn't T-ball not everyone can put the same time, effort, money and knowledge into their cars as others. So we should punish those that can? It's not all that hard to make almost any combo a one second under car. Yes you may have to spend some money, put some time and effort in. If you don't choose to I don't have a problem with it. But that's your choice. You can spend as much as 10 grand for a converter and trany but you can also go real fast for less than half that amount. I would be in favor of taking a look at the index's in the lower classes that loose that tenth between K and L. In most of the higher classes if you can't go at least one under and you have a heads up you may have spent all that money getting to the track and paying the entrance fee just to get put on the trailer in a heads up race. BP

I always knew there was no money to be made class racing. My combo is a 1968 Camaro running SS/IA. I don’t know if any car in the class running that combo that can get any where near a second under. I have run .62 under with my car the way it is right now. It’s pretty old school and I have the wrong converter in the car for the combo. I do plan to update my trans to a 3 speed soon with the correct converter so I expect to see a .20 improvement with that change. I know I can’t win a heads up race against some of the FI and oddball combos that run my class. I just accept it and continue to race. I do enjoy it. I am just an old working man and race with in my means. My car is not fast but everything is done by me. Engine transmission rear end and chassis are done by me. I do farm out the machine work but do all of the assembly myself. Not many do that anymore. I even painted it myself.

[B Parker]

Mike glad you replied. There aren't many 68 Camaro's running any more. Unfortunetly I really like those cars. It's great that your able to do most of the work yourself. That was the way both Stock and Super Stock was back 20,30 years ago. I really liked racing in those years. It wasn't always who had the most money but who could get the most out of what they had. It's tough today to compete with the engine shops that are on a dyno every week finding new ways to get more HP. I don't need to tell you when they changed the rule about using a three speed the glide for the most part became a paper weight. I'm sure the 3 speed will pick you up a bunch. Are you thinking about a metric. I'm sure one will survive in your car and may be the cheapest way in. In SS/IA you at least won't hit to many heads up. I run an A and B stock auto car. It's a very competitive class. I'm not the fastest but my car is no slouch either. I have to play the AFHS game all the time. And I'm sick of it. If I end up getting HP because of the system it will put me further behind the really fast cars. In Stock at least it seems that it's mostly the top half of the classes that really have to play the game all the time. BP

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Jim Kaekel

The only way the AHFS can be made to truly work is by looking at the 1/8 mile, 1,000' E.T.'s and 1/4 mile MPH. When you see someone run 10.80 @ 100 MPH, for example, it's no secret that they're blatantly trying to protect their HP.

So Jim are you saying that you want to see everyone equal. So if you have racer A who dosn't wish to work on their car, or have the knowledge too. Also dosn't really want to spend any more money than they have to. Just let it be a 5 under car. Instead I'd rather we take racer B who works on their car all the time to improve it and has the knowledge. And is willing to spend the money in the right places. You want to equal the playing field so racer B dosen't have an advantage over racer A. This is racing we are talking about isn't it. Maybe we should also add some starting line handicap to those racers that seem to be able to cut great lights most of the time. So tomorrow if I have to race Dan Fletcher first round lets add some to his light so I have a better chance to beat him.

I've got and idea anyone that averages better than a .30 light at the next race they add some time to their reaction times. Maybe make that .30 a .45 And if they are .20 and better make it a .035 Would that make you feel better.

[Herbie Null]

[QUOTE=B Parker;662196]So Jim are you saying that you want to see everyone equal. So if you have racer A who doesn't wish to work on their car, or have the knowledge too. Also doesn't really want to spend any more money than they have to. Just let it be a 5 under car. Instead I'd rather we take racer B who works on their car all the time to improve it and has the knowledge. And is willing to spend the money in the right places. You want to equal the playing field so racer B doesn't have an advantage over racer A. This is racing we are talking about isn't it.

Bingo, we have a winner!!! You nailed it Barry! Congrats to John Armstrong #1 qualifier at Cecil with a carburetor.

[Jim Kaekel]

Originally Posted by B Parker

So Jim are you saying that you want to see everyone equal. So if you have racer A who dosn't wish to work on their car, or have the knowledge too. Also dosn't really want to spend any more money than they have to. Just let it be a 5 under car. Instead I'd rather we take racer B who works on their car all the time to improve it and has the knowledge. And is willing to spend the money in the right places. You want to equal the playing field so racer B dosen't have an advantage over racer A. This is racing we are talking about isn't it. Maybe we should also add some starting line handicap to those racers that seem to be able to cut great lights most of the time. So tomorrow if I have to race Dan Fletcher first round lets add some to his light so I have a better chance to beat him.

I've got and idea anyone that averages better than a .30 light at the next race they add some time to their reaction times. Maybe make that .30 a .45 And if they are .20 and better make it a .035 Would that make you feel better.

No, Barry that's not what I'm saying. Racing will never be equal. Some people work harder on their cars....some people have more money to spend. I'm talking about getting some of these combinations that are honestly under factored in line, and put some common sense into the AHFS as well. Why is the same GM LS engine, for example, rated less in a Corvette or GTO than in a Camaro/Firebird? The aerodynamics are negligible.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Jim Kaekel

No, Barry that's not what I'm saying. Racing will never be equal. Some people work harder on their cars....some people have more money to spend. I'm talking about getting some of these combinations that are honestly under factored in line, and put some common sense into the AHFS as well. Why is the same GM LS engine, for example, rated less in a Corvette or GTO than in a Camaro/Firebird? The aerodynamics are negligible.

Jim real simple the Corvette has been able to play the AHFS game. But the problem with this is what if the Camaro or Firebird end up in a heads up run in good air. There are several of them that can run 1.20 plus under. Now they end up with more HP putting them even further away from the Corvette's HP. I have the same problem with my combo. In good air I can run 1.20 under. Most of the 2015 Camaro's have at least .15 and more on me. Now I end up with a heads up run with another combo and go 1.20 under and get HP. I was already behind. How do you fix that. BP