Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

Billy Nees · 02-06-2020, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

It has been posted, & most here know that you can many times get NHRA to lower the hp factor on some combos that have not been flogged much, or at all.

Ever since the 302/2V FFFord "accidental gift", the only way that you can get HP back on a combo is to build it and run it. If it goes slow enough either by design or intent, it will get HP off. The 20+ Hp that you're looking to get off would take you 6-8-10 years. You'd better get busy.

oldskool · 02-06-2020, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ever since the 302/2V FFFord "accidental gift", the only way that you can get HP back on a combo is to build it and run it. If it goes slow enough either by design or intent, it will get HP off. The 20+ Hp that you're looking to get off would take you 6-8-10 years. You'd better get busy.

Thanks for that info !

I'm not building a Stocker. There is only bracket racing in my area. I have a bracket car I'm workin on.

I'm just trying to come up with all the info I can about past & present Pontiac Stockers. In that, I'm trying to come up with all the possible competitive combos. Just thought this one MIGHT have potential. But, I don't have any experience running 2-barrel carbs, except on dirt tracks. So, I have no idea how quick any particular Pontiac 2-barrel combo could go.

From what you say, it would be taking a BIG chance to build a 2-barrel Pontiac, not knowing whether it would even run the index. And not knowing when or IF, NHRA would reduce the hp.

I suppose the only way to experiment, might be to build an engine that used the same shortblock & heads, for both the 2 & 4-barrel versions, if such an engine exists.

Anyhow, at least for now, I'll forget about 2-barrel Pontiacs. Most competitive combos have a Q-jet.

oldskool · 02-06-2020, 08:00 PM

At the Winter Nats:

In Stock, Randi Lyn was #25, with an .887 under, 10.663. Brad Burton was #33, with an .844 under, 10.706. They're both running D/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Billy Nees · 02-06-2020, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

Thanks for that info !

I'm not building a Stocker. There is only bracket racing in my area. I have a bracket car I'm workin on.

I suppose the only way to experiment, might be to build an engine that used the same shortblock & heads, for both the 2 & 4-barrel versions, if such an engine exists

Nobody ever said that you couldn't bracket race a Stocker!
Build a "Stocker type" motor, put it in your bracket car and experiment to your heart's content.

oldskool · 02-06-2020, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Nobody ever said that you couldn't bracket race a Stocker!
Build a "Stocker type" motor, put it in your bracket car and experiment to your heart's content.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

I could at least get a ball park figure of how much a 2-barrel would slow the car down, vs the Q-jet.

I had a '71 2-barrel 455, out of a wagon. But I sold it. I've got a friend with a shop & yard full of Pontiacs, I'll see if he has any 2-barrels that look rebuildable.

oldskool · 02-07-2020, 07:37 AM

Found a little more info.

Lloyd Cox won the S/SA class at Indy, in '61. I assume it was the same car that his wife Carol drove the next year, to S/SA wins at Pomona & Indy.

In '62, Lloyd won SS/SA at the Winter Nats. Hayden Proffitt also won the SS/S class, as well as the already mentioned A/FX class. And Jess Tyree won the S/S class. Don Bennett won A/SA.

I'll remind ya'll once again, at that time, all these classes were considered "Top Stock", NOT Super Stock.

At Indy, Dick Jesse was RU to Lloyd Cox, in A/FX. In S/S, Arlen Vanke won & Bob Harrop was RU. Ralph Hardt won A/SA.

At the '63 Winter Nats, Bill Shrewsberry won A/FX. Think I posted a pic but didn't know the name. Lloyd Cox won B/SA, which I assume was in the Junior Stock class.

At Indy, Jim Wangers won B/FX, in a Royal Pontiac Swiss cheese Cat. Bill Abraham won A/SA. All these cars had either 389 or 421 Pontiac power.

'63 was the year Mopar jumped into drag racing big time. And many of the Pontiacs were not allowed to run in some of the lower classes, because not enuff of the SD cars had been sold. So, Mopar began to dominate many classes. Most all here are very familiar with the 413's, & the 426 Wedge & Hemi cars. In my humble & biased opinion, some of those Mopars were some of the ugliest quick cars ever on a drag strip. But, to Mopar fans, I'm sure they did & still do look good.

In '64, Don Gay won A/S at the Winters & at Indy. Mopars & 427 Fords won everything else, above A/S. Don't know about the lower classes in Junior Stock. Haven't found a source for that info yet.

oldskool · 02-07-2020, 11:12 AM

And here's a little more. These are the class winners at the '71 Indy race.

The guy posting said he had to guess at some of the cars. Anyhow, it shows that Truman Fields won D/S, in his '68 Bird, & Arnie Toftland
won I/SA in a '71 Lemans.

NHRA Junior Stock

In '65, Leroy Stutzman picked right where Don Gay had left off in '64, winning the A/S class.

NHRA Junior Stock

oldskool · 02-07-2020, 12:05 PM

Just ran across this. Can't verify.

The caption under the pic says that Mary Ann Foss was the 1st female to hold a nat record. It was for top speed. D/SA is on her '58 Pontiac, in the pic. Also painted on her car is that she was a class winner at the 1964 Indy race.

Rat Patrol · 06-16-2021, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

And here's a little more. These are the class winners at the '71 Indy race.

The guy posting said he had to guess at some of the cars. Anyhow, it shows that Truman Fields won D/S, in his '68 Bird, & Arnie Toftland
won I/SA in a '71 Lemans.

NHRA Junior Stock

In '65, Leroy Stutzman picked right where Don Gay had left off in '64, winning the A/S class.

NHRA Junior Stock

Would any of you Pontiac gentlemen have a pic of Leroy Stutzmans 63 Pontiac, named ‘Mr Pontiac’ ?

DeuceCoupe · 09-22-2021, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

And here's a little more. These are the class winners at the '71 Indy race.

The guy posting said he had to guess at some of the cars. Anyhow, it shows that Truman Fields won D/S, in his '68 Bird, & Arnie Toftland
won I/SA in a '71 Lemans.

NHRA Junior Stock

In '65, Leroy Stutzman picked right where Don Gay had left off in '64, winning the A/S class.

NHRA Junior Stock

I'm revisiting my Pontiac NHRA Factoring.
Making a chart of the 400cid and 455cid factoring (mostly 400cid)

re Arnie Toftland:
Do you know for sure it was a 71 LeMans?
I can get 2 cars to fit that I/SA=11.00 class:
71 LeMans hardtop 455/325 auto only (non-ram-air?)
3575/325=11.00
71 GTO convertible 455/335HO ram air
3717/335=11.10

It looks like Wheeler was the runner-up in I/SA=11.00 at 71 Indy, here's a picture, looks like a ram air convertible ie GTO:
https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=429361

But, are you sure which combo Arnie Toftland ran?

02-07-2020, 07:37 AM	#6
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Found a little more info. Lloyd Cox won the S/SA class at Indy, in '61. I assume it was the same car that his wife Carol drove the next year, to S/SA wins at Pomona & Indy. In '62, Lloyd won SS/SA at the Winter Nats. Hayden Proffitt also won the SS/S class, as well as the already mentioned A/FX class. And Jess Tyree won the S/S class. Don Bennett won A/SA. I'll remind ya'll once again, at that time, all these classes were considered "Top Stock", NOT Super Stock. At Indy, Dick Jesse was RU to Lloyd Cox, in A/FX. In S/S, Arlen Vanke won & Bob Harrop was RU. Ralph Hardt won A/SA. At the '63 Winter Nats, Bill Shrewsberry won A/FX. Think I posted a pic but didn't know the name. Lloyd Cox won B/SA, which I assume was in the Junior Stock class. At Indy, Jim Wangers won B/FX, in a Royal Pontiac Swiss cheese Cat. Bill Abraham won A/SA. All these cars had either 389 or 421 Pontiac power. '63 was the year Mopar jumped into drag racing big time. And many of the Pontiacs were not allowed to run in some of the lower classes, because not enuff of the SD cars had been sold. So, Mopar began to dominate many classes. Most all here are very familiar with the 413's, & the 426 Wedge & Hemi cars. In my humble & biased opinion, some of those Mopars were some of the ugliest quick cars ever on a drag strip. But, to Mopar fans, I'm sure they did & still do look good. In '64, Don Gay won A/S at the Winters & at Indy. Mopars & 427 Fords won everything else, above A/S. Don't know about the lower classes in Junior Stock. Haven't found a source for that info yet. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 02-07-2020 at 08:07 AM.

02-07-2020, 11:12 AM	#7
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers And here's a little more. These are the class winners at the '71 Indy race. The guy posting said he had to guess at some of the cars. Anyhow, it shows that Truman Fields won D/S, in his '68 Bird, & Arnie Toftland won I/SA in a '71 Lemans. NHRA Junior Stock In '65, Leroy Stutzman picked right where Don Gay had left off in '64, winning the A/S class. NHRA Junior Stock Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 02-07-2020 at 12:18 PM.

02-07-2020, 12:05 PM	#8
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Just ran across this. Can't verify. The caption under the pic says that Mary Ann Foss was the 1st female to hold a nat record. It was for top speed. D/SA is on her '58 Pontiac, in the pic. Also painted on her car is that she was a class winner at the 1964 Indy race. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 02-07-2020 at 12:08 PM.

02-06-2020, 08:00 PM	#3
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers At the Winter Nats: In Stock, Randi Lyn was #25, with an .887 under, 10.663. Brad Burton was #33, with an .844 under, 10.706. They're both running D/SA. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop