Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

I'd really prefer not to repeat most of what I post here.

BUT, I know how posts can get buried in a thread, and some will never go back & see 'em.

AND, this is something I'd really like some opinions on, from those who may know, or be a position to give a real world, experienced opinion about.

It concerns the 1974 2-barrel 400 engine. It uses the 1.25V carb, & the #46 heads, with 88.9cc chambers.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...7&MAKE=Pontiac

(1) NHRA weight for a base '74 Bird is 3545. A Formy is only slightly more. At the current 255hp factor, you could add a little weight & run M/SA, with a 12.85 index. I don't think a 2-barrel 400 could run that quick. But, I don't know.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2087

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

(2) It has been posted, & most here know that you can many times get NHRA to lower the hp factor on some combos that have not been flogged much, or at all. IF you could get them to lower this factor to 225hp, the Birds could run P/SA, with a 13.45 index.

So, the question is, how quick could this combo go ? Do ya'll think low 13's are possible ?

That 225hp number is 50hp less than the '74 Q-jet 400. Does a 225hp factor seem reasonable to ya'll ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

Even a bit lower might be reasonable. I say this, because the 1970 350 Chevy 2-barrel engine is 224hp, compared to the 290hp factor for the Q-jet version. That's a 66hp drop. And the 2-barrel is a 1.375V model.

So, if you dropped say 65hp from the Q-jet 400, you have a 210hp factor.

Just exactly what do ya'll think this combo could run, & how much do you think someone could get NHRA to lower the factor ?

I know a lot of ya'll have been familiar with the NHRA hp factoring system for a long time. So, I'd like your opinon on this.

[oldskool]

Just ran across this pic. I'm posting it because it's just sort of a rare Stocker. It's not that the car itself was rare. But I just don't remember seeing many of these big Pontiacs, from that time period, on the track. And this looks to have been a serious Stocker.

It has "Walton's Mountain" on the front fender.

[R. Thorne]

That’s Bruce Walton. He had a 74 GTO later.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

It has been posted, & most here know that you can many times get NHRA to lower the hp factor on some combos that have not been flogged much, or at all.

Ever since the 302/2V FFFord "accidental gift", the only way that you can get HP back on a combo is to build it and run it. If it goes slow enough either by design or intent, it will get HP off. The 20+ Hp that you're looking to get off would take you 6-8-10 years. You'd better get busy.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ever since the 302/2V FFFord "accidental gift", the only way that you can get HP back on a combo is to build it and run it. If it goes slow enough either by design or intent, it will get HP off. The 20+ Hp that you're looking to get off would take you 6-8-10 years. You'd better get busy.

Thanks for that info !

I'm not building a Stocker. There is only bracket racing in my area. I have a bracket car I'm workin on.

I'm just trying to come up with all the info I can about past & present Pontiac Stockers. In that, I'm trying to come up with all the possible competitive combos. Just thought this one MIGHT have potential. But, I don't have any experience running 2-barrel carbs, except on dirt tracks. So, I have no idea how quick any particular Pontiac 2-barrel combo could go.

From what you say, it would be taking a BIG chance to build a 2-barrel Pontiac, not knowing whether it would even run the index. And not knowing when or IF, NHRA would reduce the hp.

I suppose the only way to experiment, might be to build an engine that used the same shortblock & heads, for both the 2 & 4-barrel versions, if such an engine exists.

Anyhow, at least for now, I'll forget about 2-barrel Pontiacs. Most competitive combos have a Q-jet.

[oldskool]

At the Winter Nats:

In Stock, Randi Lyn was #25, with an .887 under, 10.663. Brad Burton was #33, with an .844 under, 10.706. They're both running D/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Thanks for that info !

I'm not building a Stocker. There is only bracket racing in my area. I have a bracket car I'm workin on.

I suppose the only way to experiment, might be to build an engine that used the same shortblock & heads, for both the 2 & 4-barrel versions, if such an engine exists

Nobody ever said that you couldn't bracket race a Stocker!
Build a "Stocker type" motor, put it in your bracket car and experiment to your heart's content.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Nobody ever said that you couldn't bracket race a Stocker!
Build a "Stocker type" motor, put it in your bracket car and experiment to your heart's content.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

I could at least get a ball park figure of how much a 2-barrel would slow the car down, vs the Q-jet.

I had a '71 2-barrel 455, out of a wagon. But I sold it. I've got a friend with a shop & yard full of Pontiacs, I'll see if he has any 2-barrels that look rebuildable.

[oldskool]

Found a little more info.

Lloyd Cox won the S/SA class at Indy, in '61. I assume it was the same car that his wife Carol drove the next year, to S/SA wins at Pomona & Indy.

In '62, Lloyd won SS/SA at the Winter Nats. Hayden Proffitt also won the SS/S class, as well as the already mentioned A/FX class. And Jess Tyree won the S/S class. Don Bennett won A/SA.

I'll remind ya'll once again, at that time, all these classes were considered "Top Stock", NOT Super Stock.

At Indy, Dick Jesse was RU to Lloyd Cox, in A/FX. In S/S, Arlen Vanke won & Bob Harrop was RU. Ralph Hardt won A/SA.

At the '63 Winter Nats, Bill Shrewsberry won A/FX. Think I posted a pic but didn't know the name. Lloyd Cox won B/SA, which I assume was in the Junior Stock class.

At Indy, Jim Wangers won B/FX, in a Royal Pontiac Swiss cheese Cat. Bill Abraham won A/SA. All these cars had either 389 or 421 Pontiac power.

'63 was the year Mopar jumped into drag racing big time. And many of the Pontiacs were not allowed to run in some of the lower classes, because not enuff of the SD cars had been sold. So, Mopar began to dominate many classes. Most all here are very familiar with the 413's, & the 426 Wedge & Hemi cars. In my humble & biased opinion, some of those Mopars were some of the ugliest quick cars ever on a drag strip. But, to Mopar fans, I'm sure they did & still do look good.

In '64, Don Gay won A/S at the Winters & at Indy. Mopars & 427 Fords won everything else, above A/S. Don't know about the lower classes in Junior Stock. Haven't found a source for that info yet.

[oldskool]

And here's a little more. These are the class winners at the '71 Indy race.

The guy posting said he had to guess at some of the cars. Anyhow, it shows that Truman Fields won D/S, in his '68 Bird, & Arnie Toftland
won I/SA in a '71 Lemans.

NHRA Junior Stock

In '65, Leroy Stutzman picked right where Don Gay had left off in '64, winning the A/S class.

NHRA Junior Stock