So, Indy 2020...

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

Back to back 128 car classes at the scales to start your morning off right - maybe they will only weigh heads up races

Today - I would Eliminate these non-standard classes -

Street Car Showdown
Gassers
Pro Mod T


Ron

You forgot to put Top Fool and Fuel Ha Ha cars on your list !

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Likely a dumb question, but having never raced at a national event that had more cars registered to compete than there were spots available, like Indy, if you are one of the 30 or so cars qualified below number 128, do you get your entry fee back, or is that considered a contribution to the NHRA executives Christmas Party? Also, if one of the qualified 128 cars is broken before first round, and can not make it to the staging lanes, do they install the first available alternate to race the broken cars opponent, or does that car get a single?

NHRA keeps the entry fee’s on the other 30 cars that didn’t get in.
Alternates get in if someone broke their car and can’t run Eliminations.

[joe huestis]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

.....just looked at the Sunday schedule, & noticed they are having "Gassers" and "Street Car Showdown" classes. Is this some new form of sideshow attraction? I would have thought if any NHRA National Event had time or room for such antics, INDY would not be that place.

Gotta keep those fans in their seats between the pro rounds ya know. God forbid you have some sportsman rounds run and an Alan Rinehart on the mic explaining stock/ super stock to the fans who come just for the fire and fury ! 90% of those who show up Sunday have no clue what stock/SS is all about and could care less...

[Kevin McKenna]

Originally Posted by jmantle

But everything up to the FS cars came with a VIN number and could (at least most of them) be bought of the showroom floor.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Honest question. Would you feel any differently about it if Ford, GM, and Dodge had never built the package cars and just submitted the current models for the guide? We can argue semantics if you like, but the point is that new technology will always supersede the old stuff.

I'm not a Tech guy, so it's hard for me to imagine how difficult it is to create a class where every possible combination gets a fair shake.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna

Honest question. Would you feel any differently about it if Ford, GM, and Dodge had never built the package cars and just submitted the current models for the guide? We can argue semantics if you like, but the point is that new technology will always supersede the old stuff.

I'm not a Tech guy, so it's hard for me to imagine how difficult it is to create a class where every possible combination gets a fair shake.

Sooooo, not being a "Tech Guy" you want to jump into this? One of the golden rules of Stock has always been that only "real" cars can compete. And over the years the Manufacturers have taken certain liberties (Firehawks) but the cars had proper VINs or were based on cars that had proper VINs. The place for these cars, based on historical precedence, would/should have been SS. New technology has and will always supercede the old stuff BUT it has to be done within the rules and historical precedence. You're not one of those "History Revisionist" guys are you?

Creating an Eliminator (not a class) where every combo gets a fair shake is completely possible if the people responsible for the rules making and the rules revisions within the Eliminator fully understand the repercussions of their rules and revisions on each of the combos. But I guess that you, not being a "Tech Guy" wouldn't understand that. I won't even get into the H.P. and parts "buddy deals" as that is more of an ethical and legal problem...... and a employee problem.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna

Honest question. Would you feel any differently about it if Ford, GM, and Dodge had never built the package cars and just submitted the current models for the guide? We can argue semantics if you like, but the point is that new technology will always supersede the old stuff.

I'm not a Tech guy, so it's hard for me to imagine how difficult it is to create a class where every possible combination gets a fair shake.

IF the manufacturers did submit their actual production line, readily available car models for inclusion in Stock or S/S, they would be bound by all the production line limitations and specifications, as well as would at least start out with the factory HP ratings. They would not have a bunch of Comp Eliminator type engine "enhancements", artificially low HP and weight ratings, that the production cars never were available with. Pretty sure you have not been able to buy a new Camaro with a Powerglide transmission since about 1969, or a Challenger or Mustang with a Powerglide EVER!

[Kevin McKenna]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Sooooo, not being a "Tech Guy" you want to jump into this? One of the golden rules of Stock has always been that only "real" cars can compete. And over the years the Manufacturers have taken certain liberties (Firehawks) but the cars had proper VINs or were based on cars that had proper VINs. The place for these cars, based on historical precedence, would/should have been SS. New technology has and will always supercede the old stuff BUT it has to be done within the rules and historical precedence. You're not one of those "History Revisionist" guys are you?

Creating an Eliminator (not a class) where every combo gets a fair shake is completely possible if the people responsible for the rules making and the rules revisions within the Eliminator fully understand the repercussions of their rules and revisions on each of the combos. But I guess that you, not being a "Tech Guy" wouldn't understand that. I won't even get into the H.P. and parts "buddy deals" as that is more of an ethical and legal problem...... and a employee problem.

You know Billy, you're right . Feel free to disregard my uneducated opinion. Carry on with your debate. The sun is finally out and we're racing again at Indy. Life is good.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna

You know Billy, you're right . Feel free to disregard my uneducated opinion. Carry on with your debate. The sun is finally out and we're racing again at Indy. Life is good.

Kevin, you're "uneducated opinion" is easily disregarded. When you've been around as long as I have you will find that a person's station in life and schooling can have nothing at all to do with their "education". I hope that you're having a wonderful Indy Experience!

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna

How is that discarding history? It's more like history repeating itself.

The '55-'57 Chevy guys all complained when the '61-'63 lightweight Fords, Pontiacs, and Mopars showed up.

The '61-'63 lightweight guys complained when the '67-'70 Big block and Hemi cars showed up.

The '67-'70 big block and Hemi guys complained when the LT1 and EFI cars showed up.

The EFI guys complain about the Factory Stock cars.
It's called progress and it's inevitable. And believe me, I absolutely love the fact that there are so many cool old cars still racing in Stock.

The only difference between the situation between the Factory Stock cars and the others, is that at Indy (if I recall correctly), Class winners and the quickest remaining qualifiers got in, instead of the quickest 128 regardless of class as it is now. My .02

[Garry Dearn]

How about Class Winners (If there are 2 or more cars) and then the next fastest qualifiers to make out the 128 car field.If there is only 1 car in the class, he has to run fast to make the field!