Bracket Racing vs Stock/Super Stock Racing

[DmacE167]

Originally Posted by Signman

Bob, the cost is a big part of why people don't run Stock. You personally have much of the money already spent on your car but the power train to be competitive with a Pontiac is quite a bit more than a Chevy with some inherent issues that are tough to overcome. Don't think many can build a Stocker cheaper than my Camaro have 60K+ in it and hundreds of hours, looked at reproducing the engine = 20K to go 11s? Plus it must be freshened every 150 runs. Then you have the lightweight transmission the differential........

As to the comment on the quality of bracket cars have heard some of the cars allowed to race at big money foot break races in the south is pretty bad. You personally do not field a car of low quality how about the guy who raced with lawn chair for driver seat? Both sides of the coin.

Back to cost: To attend an LODRS race with entry, expendables, meals, hotel, gas and tolls a 3 day race will eat up 1K or more. What's a bracket race cost 250? Less?

If you race to win money class racing is not what it was years ago, the contingency is not there any longer. Bracket racing is much more lucrative with much lower overhead.

$250? Frank if you wanna compare big events such as a national or divisional costing money. World footbrake challenge is in a few weeks. That's gonna cost $800 just to roll through the front gate. Not counting the 10 hour tow. Gas and hotel. Buy backs. So you can triple your compared 1k investment to come race with us for the weekend.

[Michael Beard]

What's a bracket race cost 250?

That's like asking "What does a Camaro cost?" Entry fees range from $15 for a trophy to $2,000 for $1 Million (based on 500 cars... winners typically get $250,000+). We have a race coming up at Kil-Kare in two weeks. $290 entry fee for the weekend gets you into three races, $5K/$10K/$5K. How much the entry fee/payout/car investment is irrelevant, and doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. I have a $5,000 Stocker, and had a $30,000 Super Stocker. Who cares?

Bottom line, Pro ET is not a class that is contended at National Events, nor a class which competes for a Wally. Period.

It was at Englishtown. This would be like other Nat'l/Div'l event categories complaining about Class Eliminations, Factory Stock Shootouts, Hemi Shootouts, etc. It's a specialty event. I don't think the 8 Pro ET cars had a devastating effect on the quotas for class racers, nor did they take up much pit area or track time.

Since everyone is specifically "not bashing bracket racers", why don't those people address their quota concerns with NHRA and SRAC? Quotas have been an issue forever. I remember years ago having 141 Stockers at the Etown LODRS, yet they only accepted 108 Stockers for the Etown National. Direct your frustration at NHRA for only accepting 75 Stockers, or the fact that it takes them FOUR DAYS to run one race with 400 cars.


The title of this thread "Bracket Racing vs Stock/Super Stock Racing" is a misnomer. They are different classes. There is no "versus".

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

That's like asking "What does a Camaro cost?" Entry fees range from $15 for a trophy to $2,000 for $1 Million (based on 500 cars... winners typically get $250,000+). We have a race coming up at Kil-Kare in two weeks. $290 entry fee for the weekend gets you into three races, $5K/$10K/$5K. How much the entry fee/payout/car investment is irrelevant, and doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. I have a $5,000 Stocker, and had a $30,000 Super Stocker. Who cares?



It was at Englishtown. This would be like other Nat'l/Div'l event categories complaining about Class Eliminations, Factory Stock Shootouts, Hemi Shootouts, etc. It's a specialty event. I don't think the 8 Pro ET cars had a devastating effect on the quotas for class racers, nor did they take up much pit area or track time.

Since everyone is specifically "not bashing bracket racers", why don't those people address their quota concerns with NHRA and SRAC? Quotas have been an issue forever. I remember years ago having 141 Stockers at the Etown LODRS, yet they only accepted 108 Stockers for the Etown National. Direct your frustration at NHRA for only accepting 75 Stockers, or the fact that it takes them FOUR DAYS to run one race with 400 cars.


The title of this thread "Bracket Racing vs Stock/Super Stock Racing" is a misnomer. They are different classes. There is no "versus".

Michael
What i meant by in the title should've been: "What's the big deal for allowing 8 Pro/ET Cars at Englishtown"
I don't have a problem with it.
Also, i have made several complaints to NHRA about car quota's in the past, of course i got No good reasoning from them on why they won't UP the car counts.

If other National Events are having other racers come in(example, X275 & snowmobiles) then Why the Big Stink over 8 Pro/ET Cars ?????
Pro/ET cars & the Jr. Dragsters didn't take anybody's pit space either, they were all parked in the back lot at Englishtown.

[HR9121]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

That's like asking "What does a Camaro cost?" Entry fees range from $15 for a trophy to $2,000 for $1 Million (based on 500 cars... winners typically get $250,000+). We have a race coming up at Kil-Kare in two weeks. $290 entry fee for the weekend gets you into three races, $5K/$10K/$5K. How much the entry fee/payout/car investment is irrelevant, and doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. I have a $5,000 Stocker, and had a $30,000 Super Stocker. Who cares?



It was at Englishtown. This would be like other Nat'l/Div'l event categories complaining about Class Eliminations, Factory Stock Shootouts, Hemi Shootouts, etc. It's a specialty event. I don't think the 8 Pro ET cars had a devastating effect on the quotas for class racers, nor did they take up much pit area or track time.

Since everyone is specifically "not bashing bracket racers", why don't those people address their quota concerns with NHRA and SRAC? Quotas have been an issue forever. I remember years ago having 141 Stockers at the Etown LODRS, yet they only accepted 108 Stockers for the Etown National. Direct your frustration at NHRA for only accepting 75 Stockers, or the fact that it takes them FOUR DAYS to run one race with 400 cars.


The title of this thread "Bracket Racing vs Stock/Super Stock Racing" is a misnomer. They are different classes. There is no "versus".

In fact I have shared my frustration with NHRA on this matter Michael. I love ya buddy but I have to call BS on these exhibitions not costing us quota. For every car that's entered under these exhibitions it cost pit space and valuable time especially somewhere like Etown with their curfew. You of all people understand this as a promoter, again my gripe is not with bracket racing, I've watched all kind of exhibition classes run at Nationals and it ain't right in my viewpoint that's all. Am I upset about it, yes but I'm not going to quit over it but I don't mind expressing my opinion about it.

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by HR9121

In fact I have shared my frustration with NHRA on this matter Michael. I love ya buddy but I have to call BS on these exhibitions not costing us quota. For every car that's entered under these exhibitions it cost pit space and valuable time especially somewhere like Etown with their curfew. You of all people understand this as a promoter, again my gripe is not with bracket racing, I've watched all kind of exhibition classes run at Nationals and it ain't right in my viewpoint that's all. Am I upset about it, yes but I'm not going to quit over it but I don't mind expressing my opinion about it.

Great post James.
They don't run stock or SS at the bracket finals for a Wally do they. Everyone wants a Wally but don't want to spend the time,money and work to get one. That's what bracket racing is for with the exception of the big money guys and the top cars

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by DmacE167

$250? Frank if you wanna compare big events such as a national or divisional costing money. World footbrake challenge is in a few weeks. That's gonna cost $800 just to roll through the front gate. Not counting the 10 hour tow. Gas and hotel. Buy backs. So you can triple your compared 1k investment to come race with us for the weekend.

Here is the big difference to me on the two. Buy backs that is one of the reasons I switched to a stocker (not that it gets out much)
In drag racing it is supposed to be 2 go down one comes back. Not two go down two come back for the next round, just one has less money in his pocket this time.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by novassdude

Here is the big difference to me on the two. Buy backs that is one of the reasons I switched to a stocker (not that it gets out much)
In drag racing it is supposed to be 2 go down one comes back. Not two go down two come back for the next round, just one has less money in his pocket this time.

I don't know that it is fair to say (paraphrasing a bit here) "I don't like bracket racing because of the buybacks."

I've been to a few bracket races this year and buybacks have not been available at any of them.

I also prefer the purity of 'no buybacks' but I'll use them if available and they have paid off for me in the past.

[Steve1118]

Interesting discussion. I'm a 65 year old who has been doing this a long, long time, and race Nostalgia Super Stock, so really don't have a dog in this fight, but here are my viewpoints.

Stock; especially Super Stock, is no longer an entry level class. It could be if you want to race some 4 cylinder offbeat combo, which is fine, but if you want to race some kind of muscle it is unaffordable for most. It depends on why you race, and what racing means to you. I have a pal with an Stock eliminator FE Ford that has more money in his cylinder heads than I do in a complete mild, old school NSS 426 Hemi. Let alone his Chrysler innard C-6 and big $$$$ converter. So, that's that.

I also hate buybacks, as I don't like the idea of the possibility of someone having to beat the same guy twice to win. However, it's a business game, and I understand it. It's just not for me. I hate fancy doodads, too, but I also understand the time has come. And, I also understand that with RacePaks, air shifters, etc., the stockers are as bad as anyone else. I understand that it is part of the game, too, and that is just how it is.

However, from my observation, the good footbrake bracket racers are the best drivers in the business, bar none. It's about seat time, and those guys get a lot of it. That may upset the class racers, but these real serious footbrake guys and gals are the absolute best. If you go to one of the big $$$ bracket races, one better have his s--t in one bag.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

[Signman]

Originally Posted by DmacE167

$250? Frank if you wanna compare big events such as a national or divisional costing money. World footbrake challenge is in a few weeks. That's gonna cost $800 just to roll through the front gate. Not counting the 10 hour tow. Gas and hotel. Buy backs. So you can triple your compared 1k investment to come race with us for the weekend.

Denny you overlooked the cost of a competitive stocker to be able to play the ladder game if desired. Had a conversation about a top of the line 69 Camaro last week we estimated it would cost in the area of 120K+ to build new. It isn't just entry fees you need a weapon: The car needs to be competitive in a heads up situation which doesn't happen all the time but you need to be prepared while also being consistent enough to go rounds. Then using only enough in a HU protecting the combination your invested money and blood in to keep an edge over the competition in your class. The last 2 years my car sucked in the bracket tuneup had in it as soon as I let it make power is consistent.

Comparing LODRS to WFC is apples and oranges. 1K was used as a basic cost it's actually more most of the time to race LODRS for points as you fellas did to qualify to race this past weekend at a cost of around 250 per race.

To me the WFC may be compared to a national event or even the US Nationals since it's once a year. The best of the best foot break racers attend the WFC, if you think your stocker is fast then you go to the US Nationals to race class.
Anyone that wishes can enter the WFC but the US Nationals am sure is difficult to gain entry without at least 5 GP.
We can talk about how much it costs to race at each and would think the US Nationals costs way way more everything considered. Your investment in the WFC is a way better value if you believe you can get in the money. On the other hand if you have a fast stocker a Wally for a Class Win at Indy is a treasure for most of us.

[Signman]

That's like asking "What does a Camaro cost?" Entry fees range from $15 for a trophy to $2,000 for $1 Million (based on 500 cars... winners typically get $250,000+). We have a race coming up at Kil-Kare in two weeks. $290 entry fee for the weekend gets you into three races, $5K/$10K/$5K. How much the entry fee/payout/car investment is irrelevant, and doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. I have a $5,000 Stocker, and had a $30,000 Super Stocker. Who cares?

Mike was comparing to the cost of the average PRO Eliminator race for points toward track championship and the breacket finals team which is what got these fellas in to the Summer nationals.