Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

oldskool · 01-18-2015, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

Variations of these work well... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hal-5213/overview/

OK, that's one vote for no hop bars. Is that what most of you coil spring guys are using ?

Tony Corley · 01-18-2015, 05:15 PM

Lots of companies that make great suspension components out there for A Bodies. Even though lowers can't be adjustable per the rulebook, adjustable uppers, a good anti roll bar and shock package will allow you to make changes on the car as needed. This is just a couple of examples of companies that make great products.

http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?produ...sion-1968-1972

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=28

oldskool · 01-18-2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

Lots of companies that make great suspension components out there for A Bodies. Even though lowers can't be adjustable per the rulebook, adjustable uppers, a good anti roll bar and shock package will allow you to make changes on the car as needed. This is just a couple of examples of companies that make great products.

http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?produ...sion-1968-1972

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=28

OK, I've seen these "anti roll bars" but I don't know exactly how they work.

(1) Does anybody have a link to a site or sites with pics and explanations and/or installation instructions for these devices ?

(2) Is this what most of the quicker Stockers are running ?

(3) Would these be required on a 4000 lb + car, such as a wagon ? Or will the large amount of weight make these extreme components unnecessary ?

(4) The adjustable uppers that were mentioned. Does that mean that most cars need shorter arms ? or longer ?

(5) Are the different length arms to change pinion angle, or suspension geometry ?

(6) What about the coil spring "slapper' bars ? Are they totally useless for Stockers ? Sorry about my ignorance on this subject. I've just never used any of the above products.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Competition-En...37234/10002/-1

Tony Corley · 01-18-2015, 06:11 PM

This site is a good source for answering a lot of your questions.

http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/

Necessary to me would be anything that gives an advantage, but at the same time, I had a 71 Monte Carlo SS 454 back in the early 80's that would run 11.50's with 1.50 sixty foot times with nothing but air shocks on the rear, lol.
'

HandOverFist · 01-18-2015, 06:24 PM

Aftermarket adjustable upper arms are legal, but you must use the factory front attachment point (no extra holes). The rear attachment point can be relocated.

Tony Corley · 01-18-2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

Aftermarket adjustable upper arms are legal, but you must use the factory front attachment point (no extra holes). The rear attachment point can be relocated.

You don't have time to be on here. You have 2 race cars to get finished and submit reports on , lol

HandOverFist · 01-18-2015, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

You don't have time to be on here. You have 2 race cars to get finished and submit reports on , lol

I worked on the Mustang yesterday...today I am lounging.

oldskool · 01-18-2015, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

This site is a good source for answering a lot of your questions.

http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/

Necessary to me would be anything that gives an advantage, but at the same time, I had a 71 Monte Carlo SS 454 back in the early 80's that would run 11.50's with 1.50 sixty foot times with nothing but air shocks on the rear, lol.
'

Wow ! This blows my preconceived ideas out of the water. That site has some great info.

One of the main things I got from it that might pertain to a heavy coil spring Stocker is that if you are getting 100% traction without a lot of front end rise, then don't loosen up the front or use 90/10 shocks. What you want is to use all your power for propelling the car forward. If front end rise is not needed for traction, then your ET will be better if all your power is moving the car forward.

Also, I read that you want soft springs to help traction. But, this guy says that for a stock suspension coil spring car, you want stiff springs, so that all the weight is used to push the tires into the track. If the springs are soft, then on the initial hit, the body will squat, instead of pushing down on the tires. Makes sense to me.

And the part about the '71 Monte with nothing but air shocks: if I remember correctly, that was a heavy body style, very similar to the '69-'77 Pontiac GP. So, that may be a further indication that all these fancy suspension pieces are not needed for a HEAVY, low buck Stocker. Would probably be a good idea to start with stiffer bushings, stronger springs, air bags and stiff shocks--try that and see how it works, before spending a bunch on parts that may not be needed at all.

Tony Corley · 01-18-2015, 08:13 PM

[QUOTE=oldskool;458884]Wow ! This blows my preconceived ideas out of the water. That site has some great info.

One of the main things I got from it that might pertain to a heavy coil spring Stocker is that if you are getting 100% traction without a lot of front end rise, then don't loosen up the front or use 90/10 shocks. What you want is to use all your power for propelling the car forward. If front end rise is not needed for traction, then your ET will be better if all your power is moving the car forward.

Also, I read that you want soft springs to help traction. But, this guy says that for a stock suspension coil spring car, you want stiff springs, so that all the weight is used to push the tires into the track. If the springs are soft, then on the initial hit, the body will squat, instead of pushing down on the tires. Makes sense to me.

And the part about the '71 Monte with nothing but air shocks: if I remember correctly, that was a heavy body style, very similar to the '69-'77 Pontiac GP. So, that may be a further indication that all these fancy suspension pieces are not needed for a HEAVY, low buck Stocker. Would probably be a good idea to start with stiffer bushings, stronger springs, air bags and stiff shocks--try that and see how it works, before spending a bunch on parts that may not be needed at all.

[/QUOTE

It worked, but think of how much quicker it might have been using todays suspension technology!!

oldskool · 01-18-2015, 09:05 PM

[/QUOTE
It worked, but think of how much quicker it might have been using todays suspension technology!![/QUOTE]

What I got out of what the guy said, that I think might apply to a HEAVY (over 4000lbs) Stocker is that IF you are getting 100% traction without a super loose front suspension and fancy rear suspension pieces, then you will not go any quicker by using these other parts and methods.

I am thinking that one of these HEAVY cars, especially a wagon, will have enuff weight on the rear tires to get max traction with only stiff bushings, springs, shocks and air bags.

But hey, I could be wrong. If so, it won't be the 1st time.

The only reason NOT to go with the latest and greatest is $$. If you have the coins to spend, by all means, by the best of everything. But I'm talking about what you can get by with for a very low budget build.

01-18-2015, 05:15 PM	#2
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy Lots of companies that make great suspension components out there for A Bodies. Even though lowers can't be adjustable per the rulebook, adjustable uppers, a good anti roll bar and shock package will allow you to make changes on the car as needed. This is just a couple of examples of companies that make great products. http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?produ...sion-1968-1972 http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=28 Last edited by Tony Corley; 01-18-2015 at 05:25 PM.

01-18-2015, 06:11 PM	#4
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy This site is a good source for answering a lot of your questions. http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/ Necessary to me would be anything that gives an advantage, but at the same time, I had a 71 Monte Carlo SS 454 back in the early 80's that would run 11.50's with 1.50 sixty foot times with nothing but air shocks on the rear, lol. ' Last edited by Tony Corley; 01-18-2015 at 06:14 PM.

01-18-2015, 06:24 PM	#5
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,651 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy Aftermarket adjustable upper arms are legal, but you must use the factory front attachment point (no extra holes). The rear attachment point can be relocated. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

01-18-2015, 08:13 PM	#9
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy [QUOTE=oldskool;458884]Wow ! This blows my preconceived ideas out of the water. That site has some great info. One of the main things I got from it that might pertain to a heavy coil spring Stocker is that if you are getting 100% traction without a lot of front end rise, then don't loosen up the front or use 90/10 shocks. What you want is to use all your power for propelling the car forward. If front end rise is not needed for traction, then your ET will be better if all your power is moving the car forward. Also, I read that you want soft springs to help traction. But, this guy says that for a stock suspension coil spring car, you want stiff springs, so that all the weight is used to push the tires into the track. If the springs are soft, then on the initial hit, the body will squat, instead of pushing down on the tires. Makes sense to me. And the part about the '71 Monte with nothing but air shocks: if I remember correctly, that was a heavy body style, very similar to the '69-'77 Pontiac GP. So, that may be a further indication that all these fancy suspension pieces are not needed for a HEAVY, low buck Stocker. Would probably be a good idea to start with stiffer bushings, stronger springs, air bags and stiff shocks--try that and see how it works, before spending a bunch on parts that may not be needed at all. [/QUOTE It worked, but think of how much quicker it might have been using todays suspension technology!! Last edited by Tony Corley; 01-18-2015 at 08:26 PM.

01-18-2015, 09:05 PM	#10
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy [/QUOTE It worked, but think of how much quicker it might have been using todays suspension technology!![/QUOTE] What I got out of what the guy said, that I think might apply to a HEAVY (over 4000lbs) Stocker is that IF you are getting 100% traction without a super loose front suspension and fancy rear suspension pieces, then you will not go any quicker by using these other parts and methods. I am thinking that one of these HEAVY cars, especially a wagon, will have enuff weight on the rear tires to get max traction with only stiff bushings, springs, shocks and air bags. But hey, I could be wrong. If so, it won't be the 1st time. The only reason NOT to go with the latest and greatest is $$. If you have the coins to spend, by all means, by the best of everything. But I'm talking about what you can get by with for a very low budget build.