indy tech fiasco's

Bruce Noland · 09-04-2007, 02:38 PM

Guys,

I have to side with ol' Capt Jack on this one. Too many times we have seen the rules twisted by the higher-ups at nhra races. The tech guys are trying to do their jobs, and admittedly they do not have a perfect record, but 4 angle valve jobs and cross breeding parts are not hard calls to make. It is nhra's job to properly enforce it's own rules - there is no question about that.

Tear down at Indy is unique. Every Class racer on the grounds can hear a wrench hit the concrete floor in the barn or hear a guy cussing because he dropped a bolt in the grass on the tent side.

Too many people have become indoctrinated to the whims of nhra and it's the principal reason they get away with this unprofessional behavior. And that ain't whinning.! It's the damn truth!

FlyingW · 09-04-2007, 02:48 PM

I am not sure even why we are worried about every one else, because you should run your car, according to the rules set forth, and not worry about every one else.

I know when I go to National events and even divisional races, VERY few times have I had time to go down to the tech barn to be nosey and see what was going on ? Why you might ask ? That is because I am dealing with my sponsors and making sure that they are happy, and making sure that my car is running good, so that I can put on a great show for everyone there.

The only times I hanging out at the tech barn is when it is my car, or a team members car.

Why dont we all just worry about our own racing and what it will take to make our own cars #1 than making sure that you are crucifying the people that are put in the position to make the decisions that will NEVER please everyone.

Jeremy Waibel
B/SA 2231

Dwight Southerland · 09-04-2007, 03:18 PM

Jeremy -

You keep trying to smoke the issue into something it is not and something that is totally different than what Jack is saying. I agree with Jack that the fair and unbiased quality of tech decisions (whether at Divisional and National events) is something that is of utmost importance in this sport. The conduct of the officials should be irreproachable and there should not be any shadow of sidestepping the letter of the rules in their decisions. Any time that there are questions about the conduct of a tech person or crew or office, these questions need to be addressed and answered. That is not to say that every racer has the authority to be a judge or that every gripe has equal weight and importance. But, to assume that we pay no attention to the tech process or that the decisions handed down should be accepted without scrutiny will create an environment that allows corruption to sneak in too easily. Integrity in tech decisions in stock and super stock is a core value that must be fought for or else the categories will disappear.

Michael Beard · 09-04-2007, 03:21 PM

>> I am not sure even why we are worried about every one else, because you should run your car, according to the rules set forth, and not worry about every one else.

Wow... That would be true if the rules set forth were being administrated equally and properly. If there is a concern that such is not the case, then I think people have a right to be concerned!

Take Patrick out of the equation -- from what I've read, I agree with you. There were others in the barn that were in question. Are you saying that folks shouldn't worry about someone being passed who was in fact illegal?

To me, the worst Indy teardown story is still regarding a gentleman who was tossed for actually having STOCK heads. (Figure that one out.)

FlyingW · 09-04-2007, 03:28 PM

ONE person did not decided Doug Patrick's fate at Indy. There were multiple tech officials that looked at and check the head. We are not talking about improper weight of pistons, a ring flange being to high, or any of the other problems... we are talking about a descrepency in measurements of over 2CC's. If there had been a consistant wrong measurement then the fault would lay soley on Doug and Bob Dennis, however when you can not duplicate a measurement of liquid, how can you say that person is wrong... the fault at that point lies with NHRA tech officials.

If they would have been able to duplicate numbers just once then this would not be such a big deal. However, please do not judge the entire situation and classify someone in the same category as those that come in with pistons to light, or ring flanges that are not right, especially when it is not their fault that the tech officals can not get a proper reading.

I am not one for people that cheat either, and I would not defend someone who I knew to be 100% wrong. However, I will defend someone who is getting crucfied for nothing.

Jeremy Waibel
B/SA 2231

Daran Summerton · 09-04-2007, 03:42 PM

Jeremy take some advice and stop posting on issues you have no idea what your talking about. Doug did great in the eliminator and I'm very happy for him. Leave it be...

FlyingW · 09-04-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daran Summerton

Jeremy take some advice and stop posting on issues you have no idea what your talking about. Doug did great in the eliminator and I'm very happy for him. Leave it be...

If you look at them I was the one that started the post of Doug being 100 % legal !!! I am very proud of him as well I think that he showed a great representation of Division 2.

Chris Hill · 09-04-2007, 05:21 PM

The "liberal enforcement" of the rulebook is one of the main reasons I stopped racing a few years ago, and will be the main reason why I will not race much after this point.

Let's start a list of items NHRA tech has scewed up on:

1. Doug Partrick allowed to race after having too small by 0.5 cc combustion chamber.
2. 4-angle valvejobs in stock, can't remember who.
3. A 440 cid engine with 400 main journals, Steve Wann.
4. Aluminum heads on originally cast iron, Bill Hawk.
5. Single 4bbl head on originally dual four bbl, 67 Shelby
6. Closed chamber heads replaced with open chamber heads (or vice versa), 396 BB Chevy Rectange ports.
7. Year model 1998 Lt-1 engine, they were actually LS-1's.

Jack McCarthy · 09-04-2007, 03:44 PM

jeremy,
i agree about a 1/2 cc is only slightly wrong... and charley bob got what he had coming for the pistons... but the POINT here is... wrong is wrong... at least it used to be

anyway... i think you all get my opinion, like it or not.

jack mccarthy

Bud Lefevre · 09-04-2007, 08:02 PM

[QUOTE=FlyingW;39731
I know when I go to National events and even divisional races, VERY few times have I had time to go down to the tech barn to be nosey and see what was going on ?
Jeremy Waibel
B/SA 2231[/QUOTE]

At the Indy U S Nationals, on tear down day unless your running a SSer also, you have nothing to do.

09-04-2007, 02:48 PM	#2
FlyingW Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Frostproof, Fl. Posts: 450 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: indy tech fiasco's I am not sure even why we are worried about every one else, because you should run your car, according to the rules set forth, and not worry about every one else. I know when I go to National events and even divisional races, VERY few times have I had time to go down to the tech barn to be nosey and see what was going on ? Why you might ask ? That is because I am dealing with my sponsors and making sure that they are happy, and making sure that my car is running good, so that I can put on a great show for everyone there. The only times I hanging out at the tech barn is when it is my car, or a team members car. Why dont we all just worry about our own racing and what it will take to make our own cars #1 than making sure that you are crucifying the people that are put in the position to make the decisions that will NEVER please everyone. Jeremy Waibel B/SA 2231

09-04-2007, 03:18 PM	#3
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 2,001 Likes: 64 Liked 778 Times in 193 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Jeremy - You keep trying to smoke the issue into something it is not and something that is totally different than what Jack is saying. I agree with Jack that the fair and unbiased quality of tech decisions (whether at Divisional and National events) is something that is of utmost importance in this sport. The conduct of the officials should be irreproachable and there should not be any shadow of sidestepping the letter of the rules in their decisions. Any time that there are questions about the conduct of a tech person or crew or office, these questions need to be addressed and answered. That is not to say that every racer has the authority to be a judge or that every gripe has equal weight and importance. But, to assume that we pay no attention to the tech process or that the decisions handed down should be accepted without scrutiny will create an environment that allows corruption to sneak in too easily. Integrity in tech decisions in stock and super stock is a core value that must be fought for or else the categories will disappear.

09-04-2007, 03:21 PM	#4
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's >> I am not sure even why we are worried about every one else, because you should run your car, according to the rules set forth, and not worry about every one else. Wow... That would be true if the rules set forth were being administrated equally and properly. If there is a concern that such is not the case, then I think people have a right to be concerned! Take Patrick out of the equation -- from what I've read, I agree with you. There were others in the barn that were in question. Are you saying that folks shouldn't worry about someone being passed who was in fact illegal? To me, the worst Indy teardown story is still regarding a gentleman who was tossed for actually having STOCK heads. (Figure that one out.) __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-04-2007, 03:28 PM	#5
FlyingW Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Frostproof, Fl. Posts: 450 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: indy tech fiasco's ONE person did not decided Doug Patrick's fate at Indy. There were multiple tech officials that looked at and check the head. We are not talking about improper weight of pistons, a ring flange being to high, or any of the other problems... we are talking about a descrepency in measurements of over 2CC's. If there had been a consistant wrong measurement then the fault would lay soley on Doug and Bob Dennis, however when you can not duplicate a measurement of liquid, how can you say that person is wrong... the fault at that point lies with NHRA tech officials. If they would have been able to duplicate numbers just once then this would not be such a big deal. However, please do not judge the entire situation and classify someone in the same category as those that come in with pistons to light, or ring flanges that are not right, especially when it is not their fault that the tech officals can not get a proper reading. I am not one for people that cheat either, and I would not defend someone who I knew to be 100% wrong. However, I will defend someone who is getting crucfied for nothing. Jeremy Waibel B/SA 2231

09-04-2007, 03:42 PM	#6
Daran Summerton Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas nv Posts: 600 Likes: 18 Liked 66 Times in 37 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Jeremy take some advice and stop posting on issues you have no idea what your talking about. Doug did great in the eliminator and I'm very happy for him. Leave it be...

09-04-2007, 02:38 PM	#1
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Guys, I have to side with ol' Capt Jack on this one. Too many times we have seen the rules twisted by the higher-ups at nhra races. The tech guys are trying to do their jobs, and admittedly they do not have a perfect record, but 4 angle valve jobs and cross breeding parts are not hard calls to make. It is nhra's job to properly enforce it's own rules - there is no question about that. Tear down at Indy is unique. Every Class racer on the grounds can hear a wrench hit the concrete floor in the barn or hear a guy cussing because he dropped a bolt in the grass on the tent side. Too many people have become indoctrinated to the whims of nhra and it's the principal reason they get away with this unprofessional behavior. And that ain't whinning.! It's the damn truth! __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

09-04-2007, 05:21 PM	#8
Chris Hill Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 655 Likes: 8 Liked 244 Times in 26 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's The "liberal enforcement" of the rulebook is one of the main reasons I stopped racing a few years ago, and will be the main reason why I will not race much after this point. Let's start a list of items NHRA tech has scewed up on: 1. Doug Partrick allowed to race after having too small by 0.5 cc combustion chamber. 2. 4-angle valvejobs in stock, can't remember who. 3. A 440 cid engine with 400 main journals, Steve Wann. 4. Aluminum heads on originally cast iron, Bill Hawk. 5. Single 4bbl head on originally dual four bbl, 67 Shelby 6. Closed chamber heads replaced with open chamber heads (or vice versa), 396 BB Chevy Rectange ports. 7. Year model 1998 Lt-1 engine, they were actually LS-1's.

09-04-2007, 03:44 PM	#9
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 474 Times in 117 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's jeremy, i agree about a 1/2 cc is only slightly wrong... and charley bob got what he had coming for the pistons... but the POINT here is... wrong is wrong... at least it used to be anyway... i think you all get my opinion, like it or not. jack mccarthy __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

09-04-2007, 08:02 PM	#10
Bud Lefevre Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 250 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's [QUOTE=FlyingW;39731 I know when I go to National events and even divisional races, VERY few times have I had time to go down to the tech barn to be nosey and see what was going on ? Jeremy Waibel B/SA 2231[/QUOTE] At the Indy U S Nationals, on tear down day unless your running a SSer also, you have nothing to do. __________________ Bud Lefevre 3075 STK IHRA World Record Holder