Racer Suspension

[Greenlight]

Originally Posted by sammy pizzolato

evan you missed my point. my point is that if a 20 year stock seat belt half the width half the thickness will hold up a car. a two year old race belt can't be bad in two years.the two year rule on seat belts should be every five years at the least.there is no way that a racing belt should go bad in two years.my good friend owns a wire rope co he has a tester.we tested a ten year old racing belt and the metal hardware broke and the belt never broke. and jeff teuton had him test it.

Sammy, the OEM seat belts (~1.8" -2.0" wide) have a minimum break requirement of 6000 lbs. and must retain at least 60% of that strength (3600 lbs.) after long term exposure to radiation (i.e. 20 years), etc. (see FMVSS # 209). For a 220 lb. driver (95% percentile), the 20 year old seat belt can withstand about 17g (maybe a 60 mph crash in a modern car).

The attachments (metal portions) each must withstand at least 2500 lbs. (during a crash the seat belt takes the entire load, while the load is distributed to several hardware points.
Generally speaking, the hardware maintains its strength for more than 20 years. That's why you could pick up the 20 year old car by the seat belt.

Racing seat belts are wider and the racer is exposed to more seat belt area (3" wide, 5 pt.), which is very good in distributing the load to the driver during an impact (maybe a 60g impact). The problem, as I see it, is the SFI spec. indicates that the common material used in "racing" seat belts (Dupont Nylon 6-6) maintains only 60% of its strength after 1 years exposure to radiation, and may only retain 10% of their strength after only 2 years of exposure to the elements. This is what I find unbelievable.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/seatbelt.html

If the SFI spec. required manufacturers to use OEM type material (probably slightly more expensive) the seat belt recertification time could be extended, but the manufacturers would make less $$$ (you always have to follow the $$ trail).

Of course, none of us throw our seat belts out in the sun between races (unless we find out that David Rampy is doing it to gain a competitive advantage, then you would see Sun-dried seat belts for sale for $1000s on Racing Junk), so the 3" wide webbing will likely be stronger than the metal components even after 10 years. Hence the hardware breaking in your 10 year old seat belt test.

As I recall, the webbing failed (or the sewing) in Lee Shephard's crash in 1985, which prompted the seat belt rules being what they are today.

[Randall Klein]

Good info Greenlight, appreciated.....do we know if Sheperds belts/stitching failed or early rumors that they were not in use.....regardless this seatbelt "fee" came shortly after that incident....and we are still paying

[Bill Koski]

What is interesting then is that NASCAR has a five year limit on these same belts?
It would seem their belts are liable to be stressed to far more G's then drag racers belts!
The rumors at the time were that LS didn't have his helmet or belts on? He'd been doing only 60 footers so that seems likely.

[sammy pizzolato]

thanks green light that is some great info.but i still think the belts should be changed every five years cuz our belts don't have the sunlight exp that a street car has. but someone is making a lot of $$$$$$ off of this and a waste of $$$$$ for the racers.just saying!!! but in the end bob and bugs got the raw end of this deal. and a very good friend that used to work for i am not going to say. said that L.S. did not have them on.

[Evan Smith]

Sammy, I totally agree that belts should be certified for 5 years. I hate buying belts every two years!

Evan

[Greenlight]

Originally Posted by Bill Koski

The rumors at the time were that LS didn't have his helmet or belts on? He'd been doing only 60 footers so that seems likely.

Here is what LS's widow wrote regarding his accident:

Hey, y'all. Reading all the comments about Lee's death makes me realize that rumors, reliable sources or not, are just not always true. He was doing 60-foot clockings that day, but he was world champ and had previously been in an end-over-end crash in Englishtown, NY, so he would have much more concern about safety than most others. He had his seatbelts on, and tight, and his helmet was on as was his fire jacket. Stories abounded about all those not being done, but they were. Alston installed the seatbelts which were made from sub-standard materials and broke under the force of the crash. His helmet was badly cracked on his way out of the car and there were fibers from his Simpson jacket embedded in the paint on the roll bar, he hit so hard. There was nothing he could do to get the car back under control on his way down the track with the crosswind, so he pulled the chute and the car turned instantly to the right and began to flip end over end, ejecting him early in the crash. He was killed instantly, leaving a huge hole in not only the racing world, but also in the world of those who loved and cherished him in his personal life! I know all this because I am his widow and wanted to let anyone who is interested know the truth. Thank you all for the kind words....

[71mavlouisville]

$5000.00 is ridiculous!!! I can understand the suspension, taking points or something like that, but, $5000.00? I think $500.00 would be reasonable for a sportsman racer. Has NHRA looked at the payouts for Super Stock, $300 + for entry to win $1800.00

[71mavlouisville]

Sammy, I agree with you, seat belts every 2 years is CRAZY! Sometimes I think we get the cart before the horse. The best way to not get hurt is to not crash. A guy can put 1000’s runs on tires, 1000’s runs on engine, 1000’s on rear ends and driveshaft’s, 1000’s run on brakes? But his belts are new? With my chaotic life and being a professional 1st round runner up I get about 30 runs out of a set of seat belts LOL!

[Bob]

Originally Posted by 71mavlouisville

$5000.00 is ridiculous!!! I can understand the suspension, taking points or something like that, but, $5000.00? I think $500.00 would be reasonable for a sportsman racer. Has NHRA looked at the payouts for Super Stock, $300 + for entry to win $1800.00

Really?? You think people race for the winners purse??
Walk through the pits and look at some S/SS cars!
30K Engines
6K Automatics
5K Cylinder Heads
100K-200K Cars
500K Haulers-Rigs
Not to mention race weekend expenses like race fuel, travel fuel, tires, and food!

IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE MONEY FOR NEW SEAT BELTS, BUT YOU SPEND $100 ON A BEER FOR THE WEEKEND, YOUR PRIORITIES ARE REALLY MESSED UP. BUT EVEN WORSE, IT'S YOUR SAFETY!!

S/SS is an ego sport, plain and simple!!

I agree, Bob is a nice guy. But those that know him also know he skirted the system all the time. NHRA found a chance to get even. Plain and simple!

[1320racer]

dead on with a zero!