How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???

[james schaechter]

If you mean contingency and class eliminations.....

There should and could be a better way to tie the marketing success and sales of products to the class racers. I don't think that the measure of the sales of a particular brand or component can be measured with the class runoffs alone.

If the manufacturers actually were ever satisfied with the number of cars that ran for class as their "sales" figures to class racers as a market share, they were not looking at the right thing.

It might have been difficult to give the manufacturers real data that supported this in the past.

I would say that it is not really important to a manufacturer how many cars show up for class, it is more important to know how many bought their stuff and advertised that they bought their stuff. They should not really care how many show up for class, but rather how many widgets they sold because of the class program.

With the ability to have data bases tied to web sites, etc. I think a smart marketing plan from NHRA and for the Manufacturers would include a web site that we could and should register our proof of purchase, class and maybe a picture or bio.

It should include a press release agreement. That way the manufactureres could easily track their sales success and tie it to a class. They could also have access as contingent sponsors to the racer pictures and bios to use on their own web sites. It would drive more sales I think. If a prospective racer was building a car for example, they could click on a category for example and then all the race cars and bios would come up. It would let a racer see the most popular brands or the what the racers that win or have faster cars run.

That in my opinion would help justify their $$$ spent. From that, they could decide if the total spend on a contingency program would be justified. Especially in the eyes of the bean counters. It is real data that could support a good business case.

I think also it would keep the racers accountable to claiming only parts that they bought and could prove that they bought. Whatever the guidelines were.

It would be a more solid structure that NHRA could sell and I think whomever ran it in NHRA would be able to then hold contingent sponsors accountable for payout more easily. It could have feedback tabs from racers and sponsors alike.

I do think NHRA has to allow more flexability to sponsors that want to particpate at a lower level as well. There are not as many big fish out there.

I agree that the system is not going well for us or the sponsors and something had or still has to be done. I just don't think that the new proposal attacks the real issue. It just slows down the death spiral. We need a difubulator for it, not a cough drop.

The good news is that I think it CAN work if we really get the right people with new ideas to try.

I love class racing and the heads up class runs. I want to see it work for all. It is not going to happen unless we can justify it in the eyes of the manufacturers and only if NHRA can commit some real resources to figure it out. I would have thought that with all this so called "marketing talent" they brought in, we could get some ideas going. Maybe as sportsman we are so far off their radar screen that they aren't looking at us as part of the solution.

I myself as a sportman think we carry more weight than we are given credit for in this area. If NHRA would realize it is "drive for show, putt for dough", they might decide to do something about it. There are a lot of racers buying parts that hardly ever show up to run class. That is a big market.

[Bryan Worner]

I agree with Mark! If the main issue is singles, don't take away from the rest of the class by not paying them! Who wants to go to a class race, have 8 cars in your class, and not get any contingency for winning that class runoff? Not me!!!

I do like the idea for grouping the singles! It will make things real interesting!! But how do you pair them up????

I really feel sorry for the stock guys! You're going to have to have a Drag Pack or a Mustang to compete for the money!!!

I can also guarantee that the SS Hemis will not stand for this and will have their own program!

[Dwight Southerland]

If you could do away with NHRA's slush fund from the sponsors, that would change the sponsor's attitude a lot. The fact that they pay for singles is one thing, but posting money that does not get paid to a racer and ends up in NHRA's pocket is another. NHRA claims it the extra money covers the administration of the program and it does, plus a lot more. If this is an area that was and is planned to be a profit center for them (non-profit??) then make it known. Accountability is important and is part of what Jim is talking about. If there really is validity to the ROI for posting contingency that can be proved for the sponsors, then let it be clearly shown. There are no records of what happens in the sponsorship program, but we see NHRA's bottom line and behavior in other areas and that makes us suspect. One benefit of their position as a privately held non-profit entity is that they do not have to disclose such details. If they were true to their "association" title, then those details would be available to the supporting membership. Anytime men can hide their activity from scrutiny by peers, an opportunity for corruption exists. And when an opportunity for corruption exists, someone will come along to take advantage of it.

[Robert Simpson]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

If you could do away with NHRA's slush fund from the sponsors, that would change the sponsor's attitude a lot. The fact that they pay for singles is one thing, but posting money that does not get paid to a racer and ends up in NHRA's pocket is another. NHRA claims it the extra money covers the administration of the program and it does, plus a lot more. If this is an area that was and is planned to be a profit center for them (non-profit??) then make it known. Accountability is important and is part of what Jim is talking about. If there really is validity to the ROI for posting contingency that can be proved for the sponsors, then let it be clearly shown. There are no records of what happens in the sponsorship program, but we see NHRA's bottom line and behavior in other areas and that makes us suspect. One benefit of their position as a privately held non-profit entity is that they do not have to disclose such details. If they were true to their "association" title, then those details would be available to the supporting membership. Anytime men can hide their activity from scrutiny by peers, an opportunity for corruption exists. And when an opportunity for corruption exists, someone will come along to take advantage of it.

What Dwight said is how I feel. If NHRA wants to make things better ask and LISTEN to the racers and the sponsors. I know for a fact that one of NHRA and IHRA's longest running cont. sponsor Turbo Action was not asked why they would not return as a sponsor. I have spoken to Paul and he made a point when he said that he happily put up money for the racers who run his product. But, NHRA wanted more and more money up front and then would cut some classes from the program that would represent his largest group of racers? That made no sence. etc etc. There are companies all over the country who support racers but NHRA and all there red tape will not let the companies put up financial money in such a way that will not be beneficial to both the racers and the sponsors. I think what James said could and should be implemented. There are marketing programs out there to determing all the data that is needed to show the companies where there $ is going and the rate of return FROM THE RACERS....We will see.

Robert

[X-TECH MAN]

I wont make a suggestion again because to many on here have self serving attitudes and I will most likely catch hell for this posting but the point is....the manufactures just can NOT afford to keep paying for the large number of classes combined with the number of NHRA (and other events and other eliminators .....there are more than NHRA races out there being contested for sponsor pay outs) races during a season. Single class runs or not. The problem is in the numbers of seperate pay outs with little or no return for the sponsor. The manufactures post for other eliminators besides stock and S/S. That plus the cost of the "Slush Fund" as one suggested NHRA charges for admin. fee's. WHY would any company want to be in on this bleeding of funds? Its almost the same deal as the Govt spending and the teachers unions. It has to be cut back or its over. The good times are over for awhile. No more freebies ! I know you still dont like the suggestion of less classes but what is the alternitive? Combine some of the classes, get the HP factors corrected ( a biggie), eliminate a few of the less populated and unpopular classes but try to combine the ones dropped to give the racers in those classes a place to play so the manufacturers can afford to become a profitable company again while being part of the family of NHRA and IHRA racng. I doubt NHRA will pay anymore out of their pockets to support our/your habbits. If anything they have made it harder for the little guy to compete with all of the so called "Enhancements". My 2 1/2 cents !

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

If you could do away with NHRA's slush fund from the sponsors, that would change the sponsor's attitude a lot. The fact that they pay for singles is one thing, but posting money that does not get paid to a racer and ends up in NHRA's pocket is another. NHRA claims it the extra money covers the administration of the program and it does, plus a lot more. If this is an area that was and is planned to be a profit center for them (non-profit??) then make it known. Accountability is important and is part of what Jim is talking about. If there really is validity to the ROI for posting contingency that can be proved for the sponsors, then let it be clearly shown. There are no records of what happens in the sponsorship program, but we see NHRA's bottom line and behavior in other areas and that makes us suspect. One benefit of their position as a privately held non-profit entity is that they do not have to disclose such details. If they were true to their "association" title, then those details would be available to the supporting membership. Anytime men can hide their activity from scrutiny by peers, an opportunity for corruption exists. And when an opportunity for corruption exists, someone will come along to take advantage of it.

Dwight you are right on the money with this. The sponsors have been enhanced over the years just like the racers. Back in the early 90's I got $5-600 for a class win. The Ford and Chrysler guys got quite a bit more. The fact that NHRA keeps what money that doesn't go to the racers makes it unlikely to attract more sponsors. I have to think if a sponsor posts money they want it to go to racers and not to NHRA.

Another important thing in your post is the lack of transparency. They don't want anyone to know where the money is going. A non profit like NHRA should be transparent. Why are they being secretive?

[my69396]

If this is the way that it is going to be what can we do about it? Nothing. What NHRA could do is at least make it where some of us don't have to pull over a thousand miles to get to a race that we could hope to maybe make enough money to pay for the fuel to get there. How about at least 1 sportsnationals per division? We could always go back to the days when only the winners of class got to race. But that would be going backwards I quess. Just my thoughts. Jerry

[Bobby Fazio]

Hmm let me take a shot at this..

1. NHRA stop ***ing the sponsors who want to help the racers and promote their products. Give them an enticing "recession" offer to bring them back and keep the class and eliminator contingency money alive.

2. How about not letting competitors change classes anymore during the year? We all know people do that to get single passes and avoid heads up races or in some cases if they know they can be the fastest car in a given class they will enter that class (you know the case of the ant-eater hoodscoop at indy who was gifted 3 heads-up runs during eliminations). Pick one at the beginning of the year and must stay with it unless you have a second car handy.

3. Maybe make class eliminations a calcutta, if you want to participate you pay $305 entry fee, if you choose not to participate then its only $270 and watch from the sidelines? If you paid and you are the only car in your class on the monday registration closes, NHRA gives you a $35 refund/rebate.

4. If you don't like #3, let the single cars make their passes (together to save time) and instead of giving them the coveted wally, give them the cash. I saw on here they were valued at 200 bucks? Give us $150 and NHRA saves $50. Contingency sponsors can abstain from paying the singles that way but at least the singles can get some financial relief for their efforts. Again let that be racer choice, I know some people love to put Wally's in their trophy room.

[Ed Fernandez]

4. If you don't like #3, let the single cars make their passes (together to save time) and instead of giving them the coveted wally, give them the cash. I saw on here they were valued at 200 bucks? Give us $150 and NHRA saves $50. Contingency sponsors can abstain from paying the singles that way but at least the singles can get some financial relief for their efforts. Again let that be racer choice, I know some people love to put Wally's in their trophy room.


Bob,they charge us $190 for an extra one.I'm sure their wholesale price is less than half that.

[Michael Beard]

Schaechter is dead-on.

All sides should be trying to figure out how they increase the value of the contingency sponsor. You'd think they could at least list the contingency claims along with the Class winners, so people would actually know who's using what products. At least in IHRA, you can look that stuff up on the website. Yes, cars have the requisite decals on them, but realistically, most Class winners in NHRA don't get photos in the magazine. (All of them do in IHRA, albeit small) A sponsor should get that recognition without having to take out a "congrats" ad in the magazine. It is in the sanctioning body's interest to do whatever it can for the sponsor, since the sponsor is paying for one of the biggest carrots for Nat'l/Div'l level racing. If no sponsors posted contingency, car counts would drop off a cliff.

That being said, I'm afraid Terry's right, too -- there are too many classes to make Class financial viable (particularly with the lack of coverage the sponsors get for it). But, we're back to the majority of racers not wanting to consolidate classes in any way shape or form ('course they just did it anyway for the FWD cars)... so instead of getting something you didn't want that might make sense (even if we don't like it), you're going to get blindsided by something that you also don't like.

While I understand they had to do something, one of my issues with the new Class system is that you have half the field running Comp-style, and half the field running "regular" Class Eliminations against people in their own class, which should theoretically be more apples to apples. In my opinion, either run everybody in their regular Class, or run all class Comp-style. One thing's for sure: we're likely to see disparities in ratings and indexes a lot easier than with just Qualifying. Don't want to become Comp? Then perhaps some more consideration needs to be given to combining of classes in a thoughtful and reasonable manner.