Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA

Jack Matyas · 11-14-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Jack,
I don't know if we can get an 800 car field at a Division 2 race or not. But I also don't believe that you need 800 cars to generate a profit. Although I do fully understand the drain on profits that Slop Alcohol causes. Without counting Slop Alcohol, we now have about 8 classes, so we probably could generate a 600 car field. With one car/driver + 1 crew being the average, a 600 car field generates around $120K in entry fees alone. That's if you never sell a hot dog, hamburger, coke, bag of ice, or spectator ticket. That's also figuring you don't have any "gambler's races" or anything of that sort.

Alan you're correct - you don't need an eight hundred car field to generate a profit - but some other points must be considered - there are big entry fees but the other stuff doesn't exist much anymore - ie-spectator tickets - forget them as we proved here in D1 this year at Englishtown ----------------- PC Richards gave out more than sixty thousand free tickets and the joint was empty and as for food sales they have gone downhill since we started to use motorhomes .T-shirts - maybe .Ice -- more where you're located than here .Some revenue can be made with gamblers but we don't have time at our events much because we do get 500-600 cars so its a catch 22 . I noticed you don't care much for Alcohol cars but in our division at some events that the only thing that brings fans so ............Do you remember when Top Fuel - Funny Car - Pro Stock were run at divisional events ? And they still got it done .........

Alan Roehrich · 11-14-2010, 04:43 PM

Jack,
My problem with alcohol cars is that we have 4-6 car fields, maybe 8 car fields, at most of the races, and half the time a lot of them can't get down the track without making a mess of things. The track owners have to pay 1/2 a field a full purse, schedule the race around them, and they don't pay an entry fee or bring spectators. The stands are just as empty, if not more, when the alcohol cars run. They aren't all bad, don't get me wrong. I just think they should pay an entry fee like the rest of us, and maybe they need to have some sort of oil down/clean up penalties as well.

Yes, if you look at one of my earlier posts, I referred to Bowling Green having a pro show at the division race and getting done in two days. I think it was 1980 we had about 8 cars in each of the pro classes at Bowling Green, if I remember correctly, the Pro Stock final came down to Dyno Don Nicholson in the Kendig/TransGo Mustang II losing to Joe Satmary in the Satmary and Cannon "Tuff Rabbit" Camaro. Those were the days. But they're long gone.

Weather permitting, we could probably have a "gambler's race" on Friday and Saturday night, and maybe even a Top Stock show (depends, it won't happen with the factory cars there).

It's a struggle for the track owners to even begin to turn a profit. But if they'd got the car counts up by scheduling more races and doing a better job, if nothing else we could help them cut their losses some. I'd like to see the track owners get a better deal as well as the racers.

BobOrme · 11-14-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Alan you're correct - you don't need an eight hundred car field to generate a profit - but some other points must be considered - there are big entry fees but the other stuff doesn't exist much anymore - ie-spectator tickets - forget them as we proved here in D1 this year at Englishtown ----------------- PC Richards gave out more than sixty thousand free tickets and the joint was empty and as for food sales they have gone downhill since we started to use motorhomes .T-shirts - maybe .Ice -- more where you're located than here .Some revenue can be made with gamblers but we don't have time at our events much because we do get 500-600 cars so its a catch 22 . I noticed you don't care much for Alcohol cars but in our division at some events that the only thing that brings fans so ............Do you remember when Top Fuel - Funny Car - Pro Stock were run at divisional events ? And they still got it done .........

If a track owner knows how to promote a divisional event, they can put butts in the seats and dollars in their pockets. Bandimere does so on a regular basis for their divisionals with a marketing partnership with Grease Monkey. I've seen the front gate bring in 10,000 to 15,000 people a number of times. While they do own/operate some of their concessions, the real cash cow for the front gate is, they charge for parking...and people pay it when they're getting free or 2-4-1 tickets. The primary focus of their advertising is the alcohol cars. People will show up to see those cars race if they know they are racing that weekend.

The points race at Norwalk this year was the first time they've ever had to turn people away at the gate - no more room for spectators. On Saturday, the place had more spectators than I've seen at their national events. They did it with a marketing partnership with Summit, booked in a few jets, and advertised the heck out of it. For every $1 pound of ice cream they sold (at a slight loss), they also sold many more hot dogs, burgers, sodas and beers at high profit margins.

I know some would like to see "the leakers" go away completely at the divisional events. Especially some track owners. That is understandable because they haven't figured out a way to cover the purse. Many folks complain about how some events have become more of a "circus" than a race. A little bit of "circus", when properly promoted, will draw spectators. Can that be an inconvenience for the rest of the classes? Sure it can, but it can also help keep a track solvent. In today's economic climate, I think that is of utmost importance.

I love this sport at every level. I certainly don't have all of the answers concerning how to keep it going, or to grow it, but I have been to enough events at every level to have seen what works and what doesn't work.

KingReptile · 11-14-2010, 08:20 PM

The big loss for Div 2 was Rockingham Winston Invitional .They had huge car counts in everything packed the stands big time.IHRA's crowds have been slim...I guess Steve Earwood wanted a National Event dont remember the whole story I did talk to him about it.He didnt see any piont in upgrading anything if he didnt have some gauranteed big coin.

TERMITE S/G 2122 · 11-15-2010, 07:41 PM

I took the advice and time to e mail MR Schaefer,here is the e mail and a Very timely reply
On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:25 PM, Sherlon Truelove wrote:

Mr Schaefer, Seems to be a lot of complaining about the 2011 Divisional Schedule,so i will make my voice heard here with you. First of all I race supergas,next I work for a company thats very supportive of Nhra. That company being GOODYEAR TIRE. I been there going on 33 years,and theres no way one can run that schedule,and keep a full time job. I know you walked into this mess,but WE racers were hoping for some better results. Living in Nc and two hrs from charlottle and i have to travel a min. of 450 miles to run a divisional. I just dont understand the all fl. ga. schedule. Supergas 2122 Sherlon Truelove

TERMITE S/G 2122 · 11-15-2010, 07:43 PM

Mr Schaefer 's reply I understand. And I am not a fan of the current LOS schedule at all but in all fairness it is a little overly optimistic for the racers to anticipate that I could have fixed that problem on such short notice. As you stated, I did inherit this schedule. These dates were essentially already allocated to the tracks when I was brought on board. And I don't have many (if any) options to take dates to different tracks. This is not the schedule that I would like to see.

At the same time, I'm taking over a division that only has 1 track in North Carolina. That track at this time is not looking at a Divisional race. From what I've discovered in the short amount of time I've had in the division, there are a LOT of non-NHRA tracks in the Southeast that are just not willing to run under NHRA's safety and tech guidelines. I would love to have more tracks and more options for Divisional races but only if the tracks operate under the safety requirements of the rulebook.

I want more tracks in the Carolinas and Tennessee so that you the racers have more options to run at safely run facilities. I want to more tracks to work with to get the Divisional schedule back in shape. I know it's a mess. But with the hand I was dealt when I came on board, I really don't have many options available yet. I assure you that in time these issues will be addressed and corrected.

Trust me, I get it. I know it's a problem. And I'm working on ways to fix it. Stick with us.

Rich Schaefer
NHRA Southeast Division
4424 NW 13th Street, Suite C6
Gainesville, FL 32609

art leong · 11-15-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERMITE S/G 2122

Mr Schaefer 's reply I understand. And I am not a fan of the current LOS schedule at all but in all fairness it is a little overly optimistic for the racers to anticipate that I could have fixed that problem on such short notice. As you stated, I did inherit this schedule. These dates were essentially already allocated to the tracks when I was brought on board. And I don't have many (if any) options to take dates to different tracks. This is not the schedule that I would like to see.

At the same time, I'm taking over a division that only has 1 track in North Carolina. That track at this time is not looking at a Divisional race. From what I've discovered in the short amount of time I've had in the division, there are a LOT of non-NHRA tracks in the Southeast that are just not willing to run under NHRA's safety and tech guidelines. I would love to have more tracks and more options for Divisional races but only if the tracks operate under the safety requirements of the rulebook.

I want more tracks in the Carolinas and Tennessee so that you the racers have more options to run at safely run facilities. I want to more tracks to work with to get the Divisional schedule back in shape. I know it's a mess. But with the hand I was dealt when I came on board, I really don't have many options available yet. I assure you that in time these issues will be addressed and corrected.

Trust me, I get it. I know it's a problem. And I'm working on ways to fix it. Stick with us.

Rich Schaefer
NHRA Southeast Division
4424 NW 13th Street, Suite C6
Gainesville, FL 32609

Sounded good to me. I say give the guy a chance

Jim Wahl · 11-15-2010, 08:33 PM

As I stated before. I spoke with Ritch for a total of about two hours at the Reynolds Divisional race and at least for now I must take him at his word. I believe him when he says he gets it. It's a tough job scheduling, organizing and promoting races! I know! Jim

Jack Matyas · 11-15-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERMITE S/G 2122

Mr Schaefer 's reply I understand. And I am not a fan of the current LOS schedule at all but in all fairness it is a little overly optimistic for the racers to anticipate that I could have fixed that problem on such short notice. As you stated, I did inherit this schedule. These dates were essentially already allocated to the tracks when I was brought on board. And I don't have many (if any) options to take dates to different tracks. This is not the schedule that I would like to see.

At the same time, I'm taking over a division that only has 1 track in North Carolina. That track at this time is not looking at a Divisional race. From what I've discovered in the short amount of time I've had in the division, there are a LOT of non-NHRA tracks in the Southeast that are just not willing to run under NHRA's safety and tech guidelines. I would love to have more tracks and more options for Divisional races but only if the tracks operate under the safety requirements of the rulebook.

I want more tracks in the Carolinas and Tennessee so that you the racers have more options to run at safely run facilities. I want to more tracks to work with to get the Divisional schedule back in shape. I know it's a mess. But with the hand I was dealt when I came on board, I really don't have many options available yet. I assure you that in time these issues will be addressed and corrected.

Trust me, I get it. I know it's a problem. And I'm working on ways to fix it. Stick with us.

Rich Schaefer
NHRA Southeast Division
4424 NW 13th Street, Suite C6
Gainesville, FL 32609

I'm glad the Termite took the time to find out where the new Director's head is at .......I sure don't have all the answers but taking the time is better than just bitching about what we don't like ...............Give 'em a chance .And you can write once in a while - as I've said before - they will answer if you act like gentlemen .

PS- His address is above - drop him a line and let him know how you feel .If you don't like to use a pen try e-mail - but do something .

A100 · 11-15-2010, 09:11 PM

The solution is so simple that I can't believe it hasn't been done already.

Create a Division Zero, the Nomads

You make up your own points counting races from the division menu and have at it with other racers across the country that choose this division. It ends the long drives to get that final race that you need for points in division. Also can be interpreted as saving towing fees.
You can now explain to the better half how your saving money by dragging the race car around the country on the next vacation. How about running SS in one Div and S in Div 0 with the same car.

11-14-2010, 04:43 PM	#2
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA Jack, My problem with alcohol cars is that we have 4-6 car fields, maybe 8 car fields, at most of the races, and half the time a lot of them can't get down the track without making a mess of things. The track owners have to pay 1/2 a field a full purse, schedule the race around them, and they don't pay an entry fee or bring spectators. The stands are just as empty, if not more, when the alcohol cars run. They aren't all bad, don't get me wrong. I just think they should pay an entry fee like the rest of us, and maybe they need to have some sort of oil down/clean up penalties as well. Yes, if you look at one of my earlier posts, I referred to Bowling Green having a pro show at the division race and getting done in two days. I think it was 1980 we had about 8 cars in each of the pro classes at Bowling Green, if I remember correctly, the Pro Stock final came down to Dyno Don Nicholson in the Kendig/TransGo Mustang II losing to Joe Satmary in the Satmary and Cannon "Tuff Rabbit" Camaro. Those were the days. But they're long gone. Weather permitting, we could probably have a "gambler's race" on Friday and Saturday night, and maybe even a Top Stock show (depends, it won't happen with the factory cars there). It's a struggle for the track owners to even begin to turn a profit. But if they'd got the car counts up by scheduling more races and doing a better job, if nothing else we could help them cut their losses some. I'd like to see the track owners get a better deal as well as the racers. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

11-14-2010, 08:20 PM	#4
KingReptile Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 257 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA The big loss for Div 2 was Rockingham Winston Invitional .They had huge car counts in everything packed the stands big time.IHRA's crowds have been slim...I guess Steve Earwood wanted a National Event dont remember the whole story I did talk to him about it.He didnt see any piont in upgrading anything if he didnt have some gauranteed big coin.

11-15-2010, 07:41 PM	#5
TERMITE S/G 2122 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: n.c. Posts: 86 Likes: 0 Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA I took the advice and time to e mail MR Schaefer,here is the e mail and a Very timely reply On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:25 PM, Sherlon Truelove wrote: Mr Schaefer, Seems to be a lot of complaining about the 2011 Divisional Schedule,so i will make my voice heard here with you. First of all I race supergas,next I work for a company thats very supportive of Nhra. That company being GOODYEAR TIRE. I been there going on 33 years,and theres no way one can run that schedule,and keep a full time job. I know you walked into this mess,but WE racers were hoping for some better results. Living in Nc and two hrs from charlottle and i have to travel a min. of 450 miles to run a divisional. I just dont understand the all fl. ga. schedule. Supergas 2122 Sherlon Truelove

11-15-2010, 07:43 PM	#6
TERMITE S/G 2122 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: n.c. Posts: 86 Likes: 0 Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA Mr Schaefer 's reply I understand. And I am not a fan of the current LOS schedule at all but in all fairness it is a little overly optimistic for the racers to anticipate that I could have fixed that problem on such short notice. As you stated, I did inherit this schedule. These dates were essentially already allocated to the tracks when I was brought on board. And I don't have many (if any) options to take dates to different tracks. This is not the schedule that I would like to see. At the same time, I'm taking over a division that only has 1 track in North Carolina. That track at this time is not looking at a Divisional race. From what I've discovered in the short amount of time I've had in the division, there are a LOT of non-NHRA tracks in the Southeast that are just not willing to run under NHRA's safety and tech guidelines. I would love to have more tracks and more options for Divisional races but only if the tracks operate under the safety requirements of the rulebook. I want more tracks in the Carolinas and Tennessee so that you the racers have more options to run at safely run facilities. I want to more tracks to work with to get the Divisional schedule back in shape. I know it's a mess. But with the hand I was dealt when I came on board, I really don't have many options available yet. I assure you that in time these issues will be addressed and corrected. Trust me, I get it. I know it's a problem. And I'm working on ways to fix it. Stick with us. Rich Schaefer NHRA Southeast Division 4424 NW 13th Street, Suite C6 Gainesville, FL 32609

11-15-2010, 08:33 PM	#8
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,844 Likes: 666 Liked 683 Times in 129 Posts	Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA As I stated before. I spoke with Ritch for a total of about two hours at the Reynolds Divisional race and at least for now I must take him at his word. I believe him when he says he gets it. It's a tough job scheduling, organizing and promoting races! I know! Jim __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 NHRA D2 National Open Stock Champion 1982 NHRA D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association.

11-15-2010, 09:11 PM	#10
A100 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Gainesville Posts: 67 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA The solution is so simple that I can't believe it hasn't been done already. Create a Division Zero, the Nomads You make up your own points counting races from the division menu and have at it with other racers across the country that choose this division. It ends the long drives to get that final race that you need for points in division. Also can be interpreted as saving towing fees. You can now explain to the better half how your saving money by dragging the race car around the country on the next vacation. How about running SS in one Div and S in Div 0 with the same car.