09 Challenger/Mustang engines

[lstanford]

Originally Posted by W J

I believe that Ford has a brand new 5.0 motor called the "Coyote" that's supposed to be pretty special, performance-wise. Really don't know much about it....maybe someone here can enlighten us on this new 5.0, if it's available on any '010 models, or is just a crate motor, or what? WJ

The 5.0 Coyote will be available in the 2011 Mustang which starts production in March of 2010 and will be sold starting in April 2010. Ford is going back to when it had the success of the 5.0 badging in the 80's and 90's. The engine makes 412 HP and gets 17mpg in the city. Ford Racing will sell performance kits to raise HP further.

[Superfan1]

Also the 5.0 Coyote engine is a DOHC, 32 valve engine and makes 390 ft-lbs of torque. In addition, the 2011 Mustang is finally being offered with a 6 speed manual transmission. There is a complete write up in the March issue of Car and Driver.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, CT

[Jeff Teuton]

The Mopar motors are 6.1 Hemi, 5.7 Hemi, and 5.9 Magnum Wedge. They are done by Gary Stanton Racing and are really nice stuff. They are all standard bore and non stroked cranks. I have one 6.1 apart, and my first 5.9 is being built now. The contents are really good stuff and preminum blocks, cranks, pistons, rods. etc. I think the 6.4 (392) is in the wings for racing as well as production. That motor has been around for over 5 years as Arrow Racing did one that far back. The good heads hit production in the 2008 SRT cars, and then all the Hemi motors in 2009. Just have to wait on all these new cars (Fords & Mopars) to see how bad they get beat up by the participants.

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

The Mopar motors are 6.1 Hemi, 5.7 Hemi, and 5.9 Magnum Wedge. They are done by Gary Stanton Racing and are really nice stuff. They are all standard bore and non stroked cranks. I have one 6.1 apart, and my first 5.9 is being built now. The contents are really good stuff and preminum blocks, cranks, pistons, rods. etc. I think the 6.4 (392) is in the wings for racing as well as production. That motor has been around for over 5 years as Arrow Racing did one that far back. The good heads hit production in the 2008 SRT cars, and then all the Hemi motors in 2009. Just have to wait on all these new cars (Fords & Mopars) to see how bad they get beat up by the participants.

Actually Jeff, the heads that come on the DP 5.7 and 6.1 engine's are the same 6.1 castings which were available since 2005. The only difference is the DP heads have stainless steel 2.10" int/1.60" exh valves vs the OEM sodium filled 2.08" int/ 1.60" exh valves. Why they did that? I have no clue cause I've seen some performance loss with the larger non OEM intake valve. In 09 they changed the design of the 5.7 heads from previous years. Its a 66cc closed chamber design with 2.05" int/1.55" exh valves with square 6.1 intake and D shaped exh ports vs the older 5.7 with .052" quench pads, 85cc open chamber with 2.00" int/ 1.55" exh valves, rectangle intake port and square shaped exh ports. Out of the box, both the newer 5.7 and 6.1 heads flow 300 cfm @ .600" lift. The older 5.7 heads flowed 270 cfm @ .600" lift. However, air speed of the older 5.7 head is much faster than the newer designed 5.7 head or the 6.1. It'll be interesting to see if and when Dodge releases the 392. I heard the Ram trucks might get them first? idk. I've been hearing about it the 392 for the past few years and got tired of waiting so I built my own.

[mannymen]

No doubt the Comp Elim guys are all over these engines. A lot of power to be made. It's amazing to me to watch guys like Glen Treadwell run high 7's and low 8's in a roadster and dragster with 4 & 6 cylinder engines, when I can't get my V8 to go near as fast. I'm sure someone will have a twin turbo challenger/mustang motor that pushes 1500 hp plus soon if not already.

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by mannymen

No doubt the Comp Elim guys are all over these engines. A lot of power to be made. It's amazing to me to watch guys like Glen Treadwell run high 7's and low 8's in a roadster and dragster with 4 & 6 cylinder engines, when I can't get my V8 to go near as fast. I'm sure someone will have a twin turbo challenger/mustang motor that pushes 1500 hp plus soon if not already.

A stock block 6.1 Hemi is good for around a 1000 hp before you start to worry about the cylinder walls cracking. The 5.7 block is thicker, but no one has pushed the envelope on one just quite yet.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

And the Darton Wet Sleeves solve that but at around 5k + block for machine and sleeves by Darton....ouch......(I know a guy who got a price break he did 8 at once, they cut 300$ off each not much of a break in my book.) Turnaround time is about 1.5 months right now.

ALSO LSM Out of Michigan is making Billet 6.1 blocks , obviously no good for Stock, but they are water blocks or solid at around 9k, beats the 10k for a cast and sleeved Mopar 426 (3rd gen like the 1320 had).....

Oh well......its the Rise of the Hemi again....and damm are these motor designs sweeeeeeeeeettttt..... (except the thin castings on the 6.1)

When the VVT 6.4's hit they are going to be downright EVIL, and with MDS theyll get the same mileage as the 6.1 average.....cool stuff.

How many other (and this is a serious question) STOCK SHOWROOM engines (as the 6.1 SRT8 is) flow 300 cfm on the intake side bone stock ?

Originally Posted by hemidup

A stock block 6.1 Hemi is good for around a 1000 hp before you start to worry about the cylinder walls cracking. The 5.7 block is thicker, but no one has pushed the envelope on one just quite yet.

[W J]

Lots of the old 60's--70's equipment is maybe going to have to finally move over to nostalgia racing circuits in the next couple of years....unless they do some further adjusting to the stock and superstock classes....After dominating for almost 50 years, the new stuff will be driving around the old iron in the higher alphabet classes almost surely this season... Ford and Chrysler are leading the way, w/great new state-of-the-art cars and crate powertrains, while GM seems to be standing around w/their fingers up their butts---seemingly doing very little to promote a competetive 5th gen Camaro stocker or SS car, sadly enough... but maybe the government won't let them?? Just my .02 cents. WJ

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Im gonna kill 2 posts with 1 stone...(ok post)

RJ and WJ....

Originally Posted by RJ

Are any of the traditional stocker engine guys building any of these engines in the new cars? - I see a lot of talk, info, and pictures about paint and roll cages, but not much motor stuff.

Lots of people working on them and several "Old" (2nd Gen guys making the leap for GT) because of favorable ratings etc.

Lots of work being done, lots being shared between certain people, lots being kept quiet by us same guys....

The Engine and EFI systems are where a couple of us who are familiar with the engines hope to shine....maybe we will maybe we wont, in bike(yes all those who dont care) an engine wasnt enough......but a great package never had a pig of a motor either.

I dont have much choice I dont know JACK about Auto trannys , or JACK about drag suspension.....yet....someday I hope to (suspension, forget the tranny Ive resigned myself I understand how it works, and could rebuild one, but not make a performer_so that the only area I do have experience in , are the new hemis.

Several of us are sharing info, dyno results etc across teams who arent in direct competition because of chosen venues divisional regional national etc, we know there will be some overlap and weve all agreed that well shake hands run the piss out of our cars and buy each other a beer afterward.

People who dont know about the engines are seeking the help of those that do.....in drag racing, they trust proven drag engine builders....that makes sense, Stanton is one and there are a couple others, you wont see much drag work coming out of places like HHP or PPP (power ported) they have a market, street pounders.

Its happeneing and the discussions are being held behind the scenes I assure you, not 1 day goes by someone isnt sharing, or Im not sharing info on what weve learned.

I call it our little "Drag Pak Confederation" (I think Im the only one But its true, a loose knit group with their own results being sought, to lend a hand where we can and support each other as we can. Share knowledge none of us could gain all of independent to take what we share as accurate and truthful and return the same. No "curveballs"

We pulled off the build because of knowledge from people like "Mr M", Mike of MPR Race Cars, Doug Duell, Larry, Jerry, and people outside that KNOW the other areas like ATI, TurboAction, TTI, Pete Z, and on and on and on.......I share info back to them on everything I see....sometimes I am wrong, sometimes right.....Mike for example helped me to correct a "Roush" issue just this week.....and it was an issue on build from them......my solution wasnt good, Mike had seen it , I hadnt....now Ill share that with all I know and they with us.

I think if any of the people I am aware of find the "Perfect Recipie" they will share it.....I know I will with them.

But we ALL inside DP world have what we HOPE will be the perfect recipie of "11 herbs and spices"

LOTS going on with the Motors......LOTS being held close to the vest......

Also we dont want the Mustangs to know what were doing.....and them, not us......I dont know how it is in the Mustang world, I havent paid as close attention as I should have, everyone says they will be this that and the other, RIGHT now I know of a car Capable of Nicking the A/SA record with Ease, and Probably the AA record if the info on his car is accurate (and I am sure enough it is we followed suit on many items) and the car lost a few more pounds.....

Do I think the SCJ's will be the first in the 8's ....Yes.....Do I think by years end the Challys will.....Yes.....Do I think the 2 can run heads up ? Yes by mid year I think its a lot closer than the people who have nothing but randon guesses and "think" they know something about both when they really know nothing of either. The SCJ's dooms for the people that get crushed is the DP owners are more familiar in most cases with their cars as the build process is different.....

The Mustang guys....well my HOPE is they only see each other as a threat and for that reason dont share info as we do....that would be GOOD for the DP world

Originally Posted by W J

Lots of the old 60's--70's equipment is maybe going to have to finally move over to nostalgia racing circuits in the next couple of years....unless they do some further adjusting to the stock and superstock classes....After dominating for almost 50 years, the new stuff will be driving around the old iron in the higher alphabet classes almost surely this season... Ford and Chrysler are leading the way, w/great new state-of-the-art cars and crate powertrains, while GM seems to be standing around w/their fingers up their butts---seemingly doing very little to promote a competetive 5th gen Camaro stocker or SS car, sadly enough... but maybe the government won't let them?? Just my .02 cents. WJ

The damm Camaros as youre saying are just ASKING to be competitive , youre right GM's Marketing has its head up their arses.

Ill tell you my "PREDICTION" when the Camaro VVT Direct Injection AND someone who knows how to build or I should say modify the code on an approved system to handle the "wonky" AFR you need to handle to tune it properly......I "THINK" the engine is capable of taking most small displacment 8s into the stone age.......Its gonna take guys who are running carbs now and drop them into the history books.....yeah yeah I know , this that and the other, this new thing never did X, that new thing never did Y and that what they said about this that and the other and "Were still here" I PROMISE you have never worked on or with a direct injection engine, its like comparing an updraft Zenith to a Dominator....And these are the things that are coming everywhere....very exciting time to be a gearhead.

Yesterday my father gave me one of the best compliments I could ever get from someone who taught me so very much about life, business, computers, everything, he said something and I said "Well it didnt used to be possible but now no problem" ,He said "You know thats one thing I have learned and had to relearn from you, Just because I tried and failed, and everyone tried and failed before they gave up the ghost 20 years ago on things, NOW they are possible and practical because of materials and technology that simply werent available 20 years ago, but the people will still tell you its not possible because they saw it fail in the past, you ignore that and say is it possible NOW ?" That was a big compliment to me to have my father say he learned something valuable from me......

Things like direct injection arent even close to new.....BUT they are now practical in everyday application, watch out for Desmo valves in your engine, 20 years and IF engines are still what we see them as I am betting materials will be available to make a maintenece nightmare an everyday item......wouldnt be the first time.