Black Tuesday?

Mark Yacavone · 12-13-2009, 09:40 PM

Good reasons:

I must have heard this one a hundred times..whenever someone brings up doing away with heads up runs in eliminations : "It's supposed to be a performance based eliminator"

Think about this. A guy can go to Indy and be 180th qualifier (dead last) @ .06 under. He's a full second away from the slowest qualifier.
That same guy can go to the very next National event and win it.

Something's wrong with this picture.

Big Road · 12-13-2009, 10:24 PM

Do you know what kills me about this .You guys bitch and moan about moving the indexes do you know what stock and super stock is A PERFORMANCE CLASS. if you want to bracket race go to your local track and stop bitching If you want to race nats and divionals make your car faster!!!!!

Bryan Broaddus · 12-13-2009, 10:52 PM

Yea I don't see any down side to lowering the index. Should be .5 if they want to keep Stockers out of Super Stock but .3 would be a start.

I have to agree this is a performance class and the cars should have to run like it. This should not be a simple bracket class. How many current cars could not run a new index that is -.3 lower.

I don't think it is a money deal either. Everyone used to run under the index with stock cranks, rods and valves before they relaxed the indexes back in '92-'93 or when ever it was.

Heck with all the new rules changes maybe they should think about lowering them .8. That would make it interesting. Certainly see more ice in the lanes and cut out a bunch of sandbaggers. Oh yea one more thing. If you don't run the index you don't qualify.

novassdude · 12-13-2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:
It's about the guys running at the bottom with "stock" parts now having to actual purchase performance parts from the dying contingency companies.

This is stock eliminator. Maybe if NHRA had kept the stock in the eliminator we would not ne in this position.

I really hope that my new motor will run the new index since I followed the rules and built a stock motor per the rules.

X-TECH MAN · 12-14-2009, 06:34 AM

[QUOTE=novassdude;
I really hope that my new motor will run the new index since I followed the rules and built a stock motor per the rules.[/QUOTE]

Your probably the only one left on the planet who does......lol

Billy Nees · 12-14-2009, 08:41 AM

OK, I brought up this point on Larry Hill's thread "HP for Christmas. Over the last few years we've had most of the now "killer combos" either "physically enhanced"(different carbs, alum. heads, optional cams,etc.), "competitively enhanced"(HP give back), "chemically enhanced"(well you know but tech doesn't) or just plain "built enhanced and blessed"(CJs, Challenger Drag Packs) and they can all run a week under and get themselves "beat up" with horsepower by the AHFS!
So f**king what! I wasn't going to "whine" but I can't bite my tongue anymore.
Ten years ago I could show up at an NHRA event and be a top 10 qualifier anywhere (but Indy). Now I go to one and I can't even make the top half of the field. Now I haven't gotten any stupider (maybe) and my car is going faster so what happened? I've always called what happened "The ebb and flow of Stock Eliminator". Nothing that NHRA has handed out over the last few years has benefitted my combo AT ALL.
Where I'm going with this is that if the NHRA is going to change the way that it is going to "trigger" HP hits and stiffen the indexes then I believe that it's time for them to either "selectively" change the indexes or start from scratch and review the HP ratings of ALL combos based on some (I don't know what) standard! Line us all up once and leave us alone for the next 10 years!
NHRA has either "enhanced"or "refactored" or "defactored" or just plain"f**ked up" too many times in the recent past and if they want to make a change then I feel that they should either start from scratch with the indexes or the HP ratings. I'm pretty sure that they won't take on the HP ratings so why not the indexes?

Toby Lang · 12-13-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Broaddus

Heck with all the new rules changes maybe they should think about lowering them .8. That would make it interesting. Certainly see more ice in the lanes and cut out a bunch of sandbaggers. Oh yea one more thing. If you don't run the index you don't qualify.

Why stop at .8? Why don't we just lower them 1.2 seconds?

-Toby

Ron Ortiz · 12-13-2009, 11:58 PM

Bottom line, lowering the indexes only benefit the people that can run way under either due to them being underfactored or illegal. Adjusting the trigger will offset the factoring in a positive manner. Personally, I do not understand why all you fast guys are not petitioning for an elimination of the trigger. Then it would be fun again.

Do you actually think that the contincency payouts are directly related to the lowering of the indexes, give me a break, they are related to NHRA's percentage cut.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

Bryan Broaddus · 12-14-2009, 12:03 AM

My comments are only in regard to Super Stock.

Just think it is crazy to have cars running 1.4 and more under the index. Why do we have an index if they are that far from what we are able to run. I don't think there should be such a difference between the index and the car's actual ET potential.

Why do we need the index to be so soft? New racers joining the class? How many new racers have you seen that don't run well under the current numbers? Not many. Most of the new guys come in with top notch equipment and kick all our butts. Dad puts them in a modified car and it is off to the races. No worry about running the number there. If anything it is some of the seasoned racers who chose to run where they are because they can without any detriment. Actually it can be an advantage since you don't have to push your equipment. Not a bad idea but it gets back to the bracket racing thing. No incentive to go fast.

GTX JOHN · 12-14-2009, 12:54 AM

In 2009 we attended several Div. 7 and Div 6 races where there was only around 20 or less in both stock and superstock including our 2 or 3 cars! In Medford I believe out of around 20 stocker there were 4 or 5 less than or around .3 under! The first three years my kids and I raced , I was never .3 under or more. Neither of my kids cars were ever either! Not everybody comes from a rich family or has a rich experienced racer for a dad. Some people pick a car to race because that is what they own and can afford not because of where it hits on HP factor. There are plenty of classes for the rich and elite..... why make stock/superstock fall in that group! If the indexs were much faster we would of never have persisted long enough to stay in stock!!
If attendance falls even another 20 or 25%... I don't think there will be stock or superstock in another 4 or 5 years! Then what is everybody going to do with their $20,000 Engines/$7,000 Transmissions... put them in Sportsman Bracket Cars?

12-13-2009, 09:40 PM	#1
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,815 Likes: 2,903 Liked 5,120 Times in 1,951 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? Good reasons: I must have heard this one a hundred times..whenever someone brings up doing away with heads up runs in eliminations : "It's supposed to be a performance based eliminator" Think about this. A guy can go to Indy and be 180th qualifier (dead last) @ .06 under. He's a full second away from the slowest qualifier. That same guy can go to the very next National event and win it. Something's wrong with this picture. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

12-13-2009, 10:24 PM	#2
Big Road Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 55 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? Do you know what kills me about this .You guys bitch and moan about moving the indexes do you know what stock and super stock is A PERFORMANCE CLASS. if you want to bracket race go to your local track and stop bitching If you want to race nats and divionals make your car faster!!!!!

12-13-2009, 10:52 PM	#3
Bryan Broaddus Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 104 Likes: 2 Liked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? Yea I don't see any down side to lowering the index. Should be .5 if they want to keep Stockers out of Super Stock but .3 would be a start. I have to agree this is a performance class and the cars should have to run like it. This should not be a simple bracket class. How many current cars could not run a new index that is -.3 lower. I don't think it is a money deal either. Everyone used to run under the index with stock cranks, rods and valves before they relaxed the indexes back in '92-'93 or when ever it was. Heck with all the new rules changes maybe they should think about lowering them .8. That would make it interesting. Certainly see more ice in the lanes and cut out a bunch of sandbaggers. Oh yea one more thing. If you don't run the index you don't qualify. __________________ Bryan Broaddus 7568 STK ,SS

12-13-2009, 11:10 PM	#4
novassdude Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: usa Posts: 752 Likes: 204 Liked 136 Times in 49 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? Quote: It's about the guys running at the bottom with "stock" parts now having to actual purchase performance parts from the dying contingency companies. This is stock eliminator. Maybe if NHRA had kept the stock in the eliminator we would not ne in this position. I really hope that my new motor will run the new index since I followed the rules and built a stock motor per the rules.

12-14-2009, 06:34 AM	#5
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? [QUOTE=novassdude; I really hope that my new motor will run the new index since I followed the rules and built a stock motor per the rules.[/QUOTE] Your probably the only one left on the planet who does......lol Last edited by X-TECH MAN; 12-14-2009 at 07:03 AM.

12-14-2009, 08:41 AM	#6
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,493 Likes: 3,595 Liked 7,718 Times in 1,738 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? OK, I brought up this point on Larry Hill's thread "HP for Christmas. Over the last few years we've had most of the now "killer combos" either "physically enhanced"(different carbs, alum. heads, optional cams,etc.), "competitively enhanced"(HP give back), "chemically enhanced"(well you know but tech doesn't) or just plain "built enhanced and blessed"(CJs, Challenger Drag Packs) and they can all run a week under and get themselves "beat up" with horsepower by the AHFS! So fking what! I wasn't going to "whine" but I can't bite my tongue anymore. Ten years ago I could show up at an NHRA event and be a top 10 qualifier anywhere (but Indy). Now I go to one and I can't even make the top half of the field. Now I haven't gotten any stupider (maybe) and my car is going faster so what happened? I've always called what happened "The ebb and flow of Stock Eliminator". Nothing that NHRA has handed out over the last few years has benefitted my combo AT ALL. Where I'm going with this is that if the NHRA is going to change the way that it is going to "trigger" HP hits and stiffen the indexes then I believe that it's time for them to either "selectively" change the indexes or start from scratch and review the HP ratings of ALL combos based on some (I don't know what) standard! Line us all up once and leave us alone for the next 10 years! NHRA has either "enhanced"or "refactored" or "defactored" or just plain"fked up" too many times in the recent past and if they want to make a change then I feel that they should either start from scratch with the indexes or the HP ratings. I'm pretty sure that they won't take on the HP ratings so why not the indexes? __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

12-13-2009, 11:58 PM	#8
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? Bottom line, lowering the indexes only benefit the people that can run way under either due to them being underfactored or illegal. Adjusting the trigger will offset the factoring in a positive manner. Personally, I do not understand why all you fast guys are not petitioning for an elimination of the trigger. Then it would be fun again. Do you actually think that the contincency payouts are directly related to the lowering of the indexes, give me a break, they are related to NHRA's percentage cut. Ron Ortiz U/SA __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK

12-14-2009, 12:03 AM	#9
Bryan Broaddus Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 104 Likes: 2 Liked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? My comments are only in regard to Super Stock. Just think it is crazy to have cars running 1.4 and more under the index. Why do we have an index if they are that far from what we are able to run. I don't think there should be such a difference between the index and the car's actual ET potential. Why do we need the index to be so soft? New racers joining the class? How many new racers have you seen that don't run well under the current numbers? Not many. Most of the new guys come in with top notch equipment and kick all our butts. Dad puts them in a modified car and it is off to the races. No worry about running the number there. If anything it is some of the seasoned racers who chose to run where they are because they can without any detriment. Actually it can be an advantage since you don't have to push your equipment. Not a bad idea but it gets back to the bracket racing thing. No incentive to go fast. __________________ Bryan Broaddus 7568 STK ,SS

12-14-2009, 12:54 AM	#10
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,733 Likes: 2,799 Liked 2,483 Times in 697 Posts	Re: Black Tuesday? In 2009 we attended several Div. 7 and Div 6 races where there was only around 20 or less in both stock and superstock including our 2 or 3 cars! In Medford I believe out of around 20 stocker there were 4 or 5 less than or around .3 under! The first three years my kids and I raced , I was never .3 under or more. Neither of my kids cars were ever either! Not everybody comes from a rich family or has a rich experienced racer for a dad. Some people pick a car to race because that is what they own and can afford not because of where it hits on HP factor. There are plenty of classes for the rich and elite..... why make stock/superstock fall in that group! If the indexs were much faster we would of never have persisted long enough to stay in stock!! If attendance falls even another 20 or 25%... I don't think there will be stock or superstock in another 4 or 5 years! Then what is everybody going to do with their $20,000 Engines/$7,000 Transmissions... put them in Sportsman Bracket Cars?