CJ OUT at Indy!! - Page 6

stage1scott · 09-06-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longbob

Aren't they on the top of the motor?

yeah, on top all right-and-shoved so far back under the windshield I don't know how guys work on them either!! cooool cars though..................

pro7474 · 09-06-2009, 11:15 AM

The cam gears on these engines are not keyed, so you have to use a set of special locks to position the 4 camshafts and the crankshaft and them you torque the canshaft sprockets on, the camshat and sprockets are a tappered fit. OTC makes a master kit thats does most Fords but the DOHC need another kit that is also by OTC around $300.
Chris

z28camaroman · 09-06-2009, 12:02 PM

The whole situation with Tim Bishop is probably the worst that I've seen in years. NHRA did not do the right thing here. There was nothing wrong with his pistons and this engine was built by one of the most respected engine builders in Stock Eliminator.

What really amazes me is the fact that CP pistons and NHRA are suppose to be on the same page and working in concert together in this world of Stock Eliminator that we live in. Both parties are suppose to know what the other one is doing and wants, but it's 180 degrees the other way! Chaos! No communication skills at all, that's for sure!

When you're dealing with the expenses in getting to Indy, and all it takes to maintain a race car, there is no excuse for what happened here. T. Bishop should be given the class win in this situation. This issue is between CP and NHRA. Not the racer who was legal in all parameters of his engine.

Jerry

Billy Nees · 09-06-2009, 01:09 PM

Jerry, I think that it's terrible what has happened to Tim. I brought this issue (part #s) to techs attention over a year ago. If a piston, pin, rod assy looks and weighs correctly then what difference does it make what part number is on it. I was told they needed a part # for "reference" purposes. As bad as what happened to Tim is I still feel what happened to Don Himes at Indy a few years ago is worse. He won class and was tossed out of the barn because his heads looked "too stock". That is the direct quote.

Ed Wright · 09-06-2009, 07:39 PM

Guess you don't sand the tops of those to equalize the deck! About all you could do is cull through rods for slightly different lengths (not real likely with aftermarket rods) and/or re-size some to shorten them. What a pain if your somewhat anal and like everything dead-nuts. Makes SS engines look easier.

Bite me, Short Bob.

JHeath · 09-06-2009, 09:15 PM

Mike, so it is my understanding that your team's attention to detail is also "illegal?" After all, your engine was once found to be "not correct to specification."

Guess what? These things happen and most of the time nobody ever hears about it. I don't recall seeing a post for you guys, "Voth OUT at KC!!!" The story about Ford sending in the wrong spec is entirely possible and this (small) issue will be resolved, just like most other tech violations.

And in the interest of fair reporting, would you (and many others here) be making such a big deal out of this if it was a supercharged LS7 Camaro or Corvette that got tossed for the same violation?

Just saying.

james schaechter · 09-07-2009, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHeath

Mike, so it is my understanding that your team's attention to detail is also "illegal?" After all, your engine was once found to be "not correct to specification."

Guess what? These things happen and most of the time nobody ever hears about it. I don't recall seeing a post for you guys, "Voth OUT at KC!!!" The story about Ford sending in the wrong spec is entirely possible and this (small) issue will be resolved, just like most other tech violations.

And in the interest of fair reporting, would you (and many others here) be making such a big deal out of this if it was a supercharged LS7 Camaro or Corvette that got tossed for the same violation?

Just saying.

Jerry, I think it is noteworthy. The cars were definately stock. They were definately illegal,(because of a clerical error) and come Tuesday, they will be legal again. I don't think they are getting picked on. If NHRA didn't pick any CJs it would have been a bigger story.I was surprised they didn't pick any Mopars, but that could have been because Johns broke and Big didn't qualify (who knows) If there were any GM factory products made and flying, I would hope also that they would be torn down. I hope that the success of the Ford Program and hopefully Mopars are seen as proof that involvement in Motorsports is worthy of their marketing budget again. The CJ guys don't need any real defense. They are racers with some bad a** cars! There is a guy that brought one to Cordova and he was leaving low like a street car, granny shifting thr stock 6 speed and went 10.70's. He and his boy were having a blast. I don't think they had to turn a wrench on this car. I bet you spent some time in the garage on yours. Speaking of that, where are you Jerry? You should be at some Heartland races or Divisionals at Cordova or TriState! You coming to Earlville? Rob Turkal won the Sunday Stock Superstock meet there yesterday in his I stick car.

novassdude · 09-07-2009, 11:45 AM

Jason Line got a year way back for a illegal piston. Will these guys get a year?

Mike Voth · 09-07-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHeath

Mike, so it is my understanding that your team's attention to detail is also "illegal?" After all, your engine was once found to be "not correct to specification."

Guess what? These things happen and most of the time nobody ever hears about it. I don't recall seeing a post for you guys, "Voth OUT at KC!!!" The story about Ford sending in the wrong spec is entirely possible and this (small) issue will be resolved, just like most other tech violations.

And in the interest of fair reporting, would you (and many others here) be making such a big deal out of this if it was a supercharged LS7 Camaro or Corvette that got tossed for the same violation?

Just saying.

Good points, but a little "outdated" We checked our heads, and they checked correct. Layer checked them and they also checked correct. We didn't check them prior to assembly, but again, would have checked ok anyway with our equipment. You didnt' see a post named voth out at kc, but I did create a thread on the subject right after it happen, so you might want to research your topic before you start stating things that are inaccurate. The ford issue will be resolved soon, no doubt, but the fact that it happened is just funny to me. I doubt it would happen with GM. I expect this sort of thing from a lesser car manufacturer. It's no secret I dislike fords, or the fact that their racing products have been inferior to GM for many years. Ratio of GM to ford at the track speaks for itself. But in the interest of being fair, it wouldn't suprise me if someone made note of a similar violation, if occured in the GM camp. I just don't think that GM would make a mistake like that. Even though this "small" issue will be resolved, it's the fact that it occured in the first place.

And, seriously, rules are rules, and even though it doesn't make a difference overall, NHRA made the right call, as they did with us in KC last fall. We corrected ours, they will correct the CJ's paperwork, and we'll all move on like we always do.

Chevellewagon · 09-07-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Staggs

If I read correctly Jimmy Holzman got tossed. Chad Holzman didn't.

W: 595 Chad Holzman, Wichita, Kan. ('08 Cobra Jet/331) .094 10.047 133.21
L: 5251 Tim Nicholson, Concordia, Kan. ('08 Cobra Jet/331) DQ-Tech

Phil Daly

09-06-2009, 11:15 AM	#52
pro7474 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 52 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 1 Post	Re: CJ OUT at Indy!! The cam gears on these engines are not keyed, so you have to use a set of special locks to position the 4 camshafts and the crankshaft and them you torque the canshaft sprockets on, the camshat and sprockets are a tappered fit. OTC makes a master kit thats does most Fords but the DOHC need another kit that is also by OTC around $300. Chris

09-06-2009, 12:02 PM	#53
z28camaroman Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Eldersburg, MD Posts: 153 Likes: 0 Liked 91 Times in 2 Posts	Re: CJ OUT at Indy!! The whole situation with Tim Bishop is probably the worst that I've seen in years. NHRA did not do the right thing here. There was nothing wrong with his pistons and this engine was built by one of the most respected engine builders in Stock Eliminator. What really amazes me is the fact that CP pistons and NHRA are suppose to be on the same page and working in concert together in this world of Stock Eliminator that we live in. Both parties are suppose to know what the other one is doing and wants, but it's 180 degrees the other way! Chaos! No communication skills at all, that's for sure! When you're dealing with the expenses in getting to Indy, and all it takes to maintain a race car, there is no excuse for what happened here. T. Bishop should be given the class win in this situation. This issue is between CP and NHRA. Not the racer who was legal in all parameters of his engine. Jerry

09-06-2009, 01:09 PM	#54
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,493 Likes: 3,595 Liked 7,716 Times in 1,738 Posts	Re: CJ OUT at Indy!! Jerry, I think that it's terrible what has happened to Tim. I brought this issue (part #s) to techs attention over a year ago. If a piston, pin, rod assy looks and weighs correctly then what difference does it make what part number is on it. I was told they needed a part # for "reference" purposes. As bad as what happened to Tim is I still feel what happened to Don Himes at Indy a few years ago is worse. He won class and was tossed out of the barn because his heads looked "too stock". That is the direct quote. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

09-06-2009, 07:39 PM	#55
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: CJ OUT at Indy!! Guess you don't sand the tops of those to equalize the deck! About all you could do is cull through rods for slightly different lengths (not real likely with aftermarket rods) and/or re-size some to shorten them. What a pain if your somewhat anal and like everything dead-nuts. Makes SS engines look easier. Bite me, Short Bob. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 09-06-2009 at 07:46 PM.

09-06-2009, 09:15 PM	#56
JHeath Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 786 Likes: 2,876 Liked 370 Times in 101 Posts	Re: CJ OUT at Indy!! Mike, so it is my understanding that your team's attention to detail is also "illegal?" After all, your engine was once found to be "not correct to specification." Guess what? These things happen and most of the time nobody ever hears about it. I don't recall seeing a post for you guys, "Voth OUT at KC!!!" The story about Ford sending in the wrong spec is entirely possible and this (small) issue will be resolved, just like most other tech violations. And in the interest of fair reporting, would you (and many others here) be making such a big deal out of this if it was a supercharged LS7 Camaro or Corvette that got tossed for the same violation? Just saying. __________________ Jerry Heath I/S '93 Cobra FS/J 2010 Mustang "Ebay CJ"

09-07-2009, 11:45 AM	#58
novassdude Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: usa Posts: 752 Likes: 204 Liked 136 Times in 49 Posts	Re: CJ OUT at Indy!! Jason Line got a year way back for a illegal piston. Will these guys get a year?