402 stocker engine

[Jrh5220]

Originally Posted by Henrys Toy

Good morning to all,
Since you recently had this engine honed and re- ringed it, have you made any full power pulls on a dyno ?
It'll take a couple of pulls to get the rings to seat. Running at Idle or above Idle won't seat the rings.
Also what shape were the ring lands in ? If they have a excessive amount of play ( up & down) they won't seal either.
If you haven't run this engine on the dyno, I would, then make at least 4 or 5 full power pulls and that should get things in order.
Good luck with your adventure and keep us posted with your results.

Respectfully,
Henry Kunz 1534 H/SA

Henry the pistons are new lands are good,this is the second set of pistons had the same results. Here in South Dakota the dynos are few and far.

[Alan Roehrich]

Not having smoke from the headers simply means there's not a lot of oil getting into the combustion chamber, by the oil rings or the valve stem seals.


Smoke from the valve covers is a sign of blow by, or oil temperature problems. Blow by will actually blow the oil ring out against the cylinder walls, and stop oil from getting by. With good quality modern rings, odds are your problem is the hone, or what you're doing to assemble the engine.


Call Keith or Kevin at Total Seal.


The proper way to test cylinder seal is with a blow by meter on the dyno, with a Dwyer guage, there's no real substitute There's a video on youtube, by Lake Speed Jr.

[Bob Sherwood]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Not having smoke from the headers simply means there's not a lot of oil getting into the combustion chamber, by the oil rings or the valve stem seals.


Smoke from the valve covers is a sign of blow by, or oil temperature problems. Blow by will actually blow the oil ring out against the cylinder walls, and stop oil from getting by. With good quality modern rings, odds are your problem is the hone, or what you're doing to assemble the engine.


Call Keith or Kevin at Total Seal.


The proper way to test cylinder seal is with a blow by meter on the dyno, with a Dwyer guage, there's no real substitute There's a video on youtube, by Lake Speed Jr.

Alan -- what are you thoughts or results on using sleeves in BB blocks ??

[Jeff Stout]

Not sure if anyone else ask this. Do you know the tension on oil ring?
The other would be seating the rings. Either on a dyno if in car then maybe get brake pressure as high as you can and run motor in gear as high as you can. If unable to hold in 1st gear try second gear. I had trans brake on my super stocker and it worked well on rebuild. Don't forget to remove rpm chip. Hopefully carb is not leaking when sitting and washing out cylinders.

[Henrys Toy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Stout

Not sure if anyone else ask this. Do you know the tension on oil ring?
The other would be seating the rings. Either on a dyno if in car then maybe get brake pressure as high as you can and run motor in gear as high as you can. If unable to hold in 1st gear try second gear. I had trans brake on my super stocker and it worked well on rebuild. Don't forget to remove rpm chip. Hopefully carb is not leaking when sitting and washing out cylinders.

Good morning to all,
I was catching up here this morning and that suggestion is a good catch. I was about to say if the engine is broken in properly, that the problem could be "deeper" meaning you'll have to scrutinize all the parts much more closely. I did have a problem recently where the way the Mfg. cut the Second ring stack, the cutter let a burr on the back side of the ring - causing it to stick in the ring land. The engine wouldn't seal and did smoke. I'm not saying this is your problem, but I'm stating that going over all the piece's in the " system" need to be inspected. Had another situation with rings where they " micro welded " themselves in the top ring land causing the top ring to not seal. I'm bring up examples so you can take your engine apart and " inspect " each part. Without the parts in front of me its a little difficult to see for myself.
Keep looking - I'm sure you'll see the problem.

Respectfully,
Henry Kunz 1534 H/SA

[Jrh5220]

Originally Posted by Jeff Stout

Not sure if anyone else ask this. Do you know the tension on oil ring?
The other would be seating the rings. Either on a dyno if in car then maybe get brake pressure as high as you can and run motor in gear as high as you can. If unable to hold in 1st gear try second gear. I had trans brake on my super stocker and it worked well on rebuild. Don't forget to remove rpm chip. Hopefully carb is not leaking when sitting and washing out cylinders.

Jeff it’s about 14 lbs

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Bob Sherwood

Alan -- what are you thoughts or results on using sleeves in BB blocks ??

We have had good luck. However, to be very clear, we use flanged diesel sleeves. I won't use a non flanged sleeve anymore, for anything. Flanged sleeves are a royal pain, especially if your block is already "finished", and you don't want to deck it much, if any. But properly installed flanged sleeves do not move, and do not distort. Also, a good quality sleeve is better material than a production block. Combine a quality sleeve with the modern diamond hone process as prescribed by guys like Keith Jones and Lake Speed Jr., at Total Seal, and you have the best possible cylinder.

[Alan Roehrich]

Again, if it isn't smoking out the headers, oil isn't getting past the oil ring, or second ring. If it is smoking and "huffing" out the valve covers/breathers, that's cylinder pressure in the pan, and it may not show up on a compression test or a leak down. But it WILL show up on the dyno, or in the car, with a Dwyer gauge on the breather. If you don't have access to a dyno (an 8 hour drive to get on a dyno is a "no brainer", these days there is no substitute for a dyno for a race engine) you can test it in an automatic car, with two people.


If you have any sort of gapless ring, a leak down test can lie to you.

[MAURICE BLENDHEIM]

Toy... Something I continue to do is when the block comes back from the Machine Shop, I still wash the engine and most importantly the bores with a bucket full of hot water and Tide Laundry Detergent. It is amazing how black a rag will get scrubbing the walls. I finish up with a scrub brush. I believe the bore finish can't be clean enough, I normally wipe ATF on the bores, when dry to keep from rusting. We have never had any ring seal issues, causing high crankcase pressure. On the Dyno 5 pulls is what it takes, to have stable results.
One thing I have had happen is the valve seals have come off the intake guides. They then run with the valve and the seal actually acts as a pump, pumping up against the top of the guide, allowing oil the enter the valve pocket. This results in the backside of the Intake Valve being oil soaked and allowing oil to enter the Combustion Chamber causing embarrassing smoke clouds. MB

[Jeff Stout]

The shop doing the hone have they checked the cylinder roughness with a profilometer? The intake gasket not soaked at bottom near intake runner?