Flat tappet lifter failure

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by john ancona

Maybe you ,and others would have some creditably if you replied with facts rather to what YOU wrote that is flat wrong , maybe you should check your facts as to if I can make a flat tappet run in stock with zero problems ,I have had not one problem in well over a dozen years running my 396 375 hp in stock @ 8200

But you're saying that roller lifters and roller cams are necessary for Stock Eliminator..


Maybe you should help Terry fix his problems.






What I wrote is factually correct.


Converting to roller cams and lifters will require entirely new lobe designs.


Oh, and you can then use even stronger valve springs, turn more RPM, break something else, and cry for another rule change.

[john ancona]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

But you're saying that roller lifters and roller cams are necessary for Stock Eliminator..


Maybe you should help Terry fix his problems.






What I wrote is factually correct.


Converting to roller cams and lifters will require entirely new lobe designs.


Oh, and you can then use even stronger valve springs, turn more RPM, break something else, and cry for another rule change.

Maybe you should keep you Ill-founded opinions to your self ,you appear to lack any knowledge about what you are talking about ,put simply what you wrote is not factually correct ,you maybe better served to keeping your opinions to your self .

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by john ancona

Maybe you should keep you Ill-founded opinions to your self ,you appear to lack any knowledge about what you are talking about ,put simply what you wrote is not factually correct ,you maybe better served to keeping your opinions to your self .

You know, that's actually decent advice. You should take it.

[Stan Weiss]

Ignoring pushrod angle against the lifter. A flat lifter / cam really produces no side loading.


Again ignoring pushrod angle against the lifter. A roller lifter / cam will produce side loading. Look at pressure angle.


While a roller lifter doesn't the max velocity limit of a flat lifter, at does have other limits. Again look at pressure angle.



Stan

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Ignoring pushrod angle against the lifter. A flat lifter / cam really produces no side loading.


Again ignoring pushrod angle against the lifter. A roller lifter / cam will produce side loading. Look at pressure angle.


While a roller lifter doesn't the max velocity limit of a flat lifter, at does have other limits. Again look at pressure angle.



Stan

Yep.


And they haven't gotten into the differences in lifter diameter, lifter wheel diameter, or what all of that will do to the rest of the valvetrain, like the rocker arms, rocker studs, rocker stud bosses......




As usual, a lot of people THINK they know. Then they'll be stunned at the can of worms they opened. They fail to understand, they do not want that genie out of the bottle, because it will NEVER go back in.

[Casey Miles]

Maybe taking a couple of steps backwards would help Stock more than of going with parts that would cost more money and people with deeper pockets having advantages. Stock as stock, hydraulic lifters back where they belong in the engines that came with them from the factory. Have a valve spring pressure rule to where an engine family can run +30 lbs from design.
With the changes, there wouldn't be a big need of the AHFS, cars would fall back to the performance levels that were expected.
If you haven't noticed, but the age of the racers isn't getting any lower. New blood can't afford a Stock prepared car because of rules that don't make sense about a stock car.
This is just my opinion, I don't need hate replies.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

[Terry Cain]

Originally Posted by Casey Miles

Maybe taking a couple of steps backwards would help Stock more than of going with parts that would cost more money and people with deeper pockets having advantages.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

When's the last time a lifter wheel diameter was checked. Has it EVER. Advantage?

My recent lifter problem is due to coating. Coatings seem to not hold up. I really don't understand why not. I'm a retired tool & die maker/maintenance so I've seen and know the extreme pressures steels are under in die stamping/forming and coatings holding up in those operations. AND usually with very little cooling from oil, etc. What I'm trying to understand is how at the pressures of a lifter/valve spring (on a stocker) that the coatings will not hold up. Some of those forming/stamping operations use thousands of pounds of force with absolutely no or very little wear.
I'm sure (from emails I've received) that I'm not the only one fighting this problem. It makes since that a smaller lift and lighter weight valve train doesn't seem to have the problem. My problem is complicated by the fact that all flat tappet motors are at a disadvantage because of lifter surface and roller lifters are adjustable by roller wheel, bushed wheels and oils.

[Stan Weiss]

If you look at what I posted. "It is all in there" The "Trace Point" / "Pitch Curve" will change as roller wheel radius increases or decreases.


Stan

[Terry Cain]

As stated above. I'm retired. On a fixed income. Would like to spend a few of my retirement years racing. Hell, I ain't sure I can even get into the car anymore, it's been so long.
Keep in mind we're talking about motors that were produced in the 1960's and 70's. There hasn't been a flat tappet motor to come out of Detroit since 1985. So, we're talking at least 40 year old motor design. When was the last set of Shubeck's made? At least 10 years maybe 15.
Some people have said. I see you have your car for sale. YES I do. Mainly because it's a pain for an old timer with arthritis to get in and out of. Some have also said it's another nail in the coffin for the stockers. Let me tell ya something. That horse left the barn A LONG TIME AGO. If the rule were changed I doubt it would say you have to run the roller lifter.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Terry Cain

If the rule were changed I doubt it would say you have to run the roller lifter.

Are you delusional? If you're running a big-block anything in Stock then you're in a highly populated class. If the rule is changed then your competitors WILL take advantage of it meaning you WILL be forced to take advantage of it or you will not be competitive.