Indy Teardown Warning

[curtis reed]

Originally Posted by Mike Fuller

I find this thread very interesting because during my career as a machine shop supervisor for a fortune 500 company we had a CMM in the shop. It did not have a laser attachment but used a probe. I attend classes for the purpose of learning the software and hardware concerning this piece of equipment for two weeks. My best operator attended classes for about four weeks and was very good at using this for a number of purposes.

In 1991 when the company purchased this machine it cost $56,000.00.It was a Browne & Sharpe 7-10-7. Smaller ones were cheaper but still not significantly. I don't know what a CMM with a laser attachment that had the ability to perform a 3D scan on a cylinder head would cost today. I feel comfortable saying that if NHRA were to start doing this at national events it would be best to contract someone to do this because of the complexity of this procedure. Being able to compare the scanned data to the CAD file of a know stock head would take a talented and well trained professional.

I am not saying this can or cannot be done at Indy but, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen.

Originally Posted by Terry Cain

We had one too.
Had to have it calibrated once a year and the factory tech guy was always concerned . about the floor being level because we had BIG presses close by that shook the floor all day long. If they try to do it in a trailer I'd be real concerned.

Things have really changed over the years. We demoed this unit recently. Hand held with a digital camera showing the section being measured. $55,000


https://www.keyence.com/ss/products/...m_3d/index.jsp

[Ken Miele]

Originally Posted by novassdude

Sorry should have been more clear on the Price comment. I was talking about the cost of the technology to scan the heads. Came down to where it is do able for NHRA.

Gotcha, yeah technology does get cheaper as time goes on, but 60,000 seems like a lot to invest for just Stockers. NHRA is the place to race if you are a Stocker, so if this is the way it is going to be, we will just have to adjust. It just would have been nice to know this before the season started.

[Jeff Stout]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Gotcha, yeah technology does get cheaper as time goes on, but 60,000 seems like a lot to invest for just Stockers. NHRA is the place to race if you are a Stocker, so if this is the way it is going to be, we will just have to adjust. It just would have been nice to know this before the season started.

Just my opinion, if your heads are good it shouldn't matter when rule change takes effect. I appluad it but dont know what NHRA data base will be to justify a good or bad head. My 307 Olds head is so stock it would probably get tossed.
Disclaimer: not stating anyone is cheating with an Olds head or ANY head.

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Gotcha, yeah technology does get cheaper as time goes on, but 60,000 seems like a lot to invest for just Stockers. NHRA is the place to race if you are a Stocker, so if this is the way it is going to be, we will just have to adjust. It just would have been nice to know this before the season started.

But $60,000 is not too much to ensure parity in the showdown classes.
Let's imagine what we can accomplish by digitizing a bunch of "stock" heads:
(A) NHRA can get a handle on the hanky-panky going on in the showdown classes. We all know there is something to CNCing your own heads to a given port volume.
(B) NHRA can ensure that the Edelbrock heads are as "stock" as they came from Edelbrock
(C) It's common knowledge that some of the 60's/70's "stocker" heads have widely varying port shapes depending on how long a manufacturer uses core molds.

But who really knows the discrepancy(s)?

How are the builders "tuning up" these castings?

NHRA can now qualify the extent of these variables and use that information to discern the competitors pushing the boundaries of the rules.
I would anticipate that currently there is not a big enough database to qualify ,or disqualify, most OEM castings. There are probably some castings that are modified outside the range of credulity, those racers should be the ones to fear inspection.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

Let's imagine what we can accomplish by digitizing a bunch of "stock" heads !

NHRA can now qualify the extent of these variables and use that information to discern the competitors pushing the boundaries of the rules.
I would anticipate that currently there is not a big enough database to qualify ,or disqualify, most OEM castings. There are probably some castings that are modified outside the range of credulity, those racers should be the ones to fear inspection.

The cylinder head garbage has been going on a LONG time. It started back before the mid 1980's. I know of several who did this for a fact and still do. I could name names but that would start a war so I won't. NHRA expanded on it by allowing the any duration and over lap rule along with any valve spring pressures. You might as well be running Super Stock and eliminate the stocker classes all together !

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

The cylinder head garbage has been going on a LONG time. It started back before the mid 1980's. I know of several who did this for a fact and still do. I could name names but that would start a war so I won't. NHRA expanded on it by allowing the any duration and over lap rule along with any valve spring pressures. You might as well be running Super Stock and eliminate the stocker classes all together !

I don't have to tell you, this cylinder head garbage has been going on since Super Stockers had unported heads. Except for the SS/C AMX's, talk about a can of worms! That's why we now have Super Stockers with these fragile, welded, leaking, piles of iron.....art projects.

I can't name names either, but I have worked on parts for stockers that show me iron intake manifolds that are pounds lighter than OEM parts.

Head cheating is so rampant in some circle track arenas that I once had a "renowned" tech man want to throw out a set of Dart Iron heads because they "looked too good, they must be acid dipped" (I went through that acid dipping phase in the 80's not going there again). Runner volumes were then found to be smaller than spec, so he then wanted to throw the car out because the heads were TOO legal.