Crate Motor Class

[PozQB14]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Really?! You think NHRA Stock Eliminator will die without allowing crate motor classes in to muddy the waters?
According to my most recent Nitro Joe Stats book (July 2017 edition), IHRA Stock total car count for 1/8th mile events was 116 cars, of which 37 were crate engine classes. For 1/4 mile events, there was a total of 54 cars in Stock (all classes), with TWO crate motor cars! (by the way, at 1/8th mile events, there was a whopping FIVE Pure Stockers and in 1/4 mile ONE Pure Stocker.
By comparision, the same time period showed a total of 1081 Stockers were entered in NHRA events. Maybe a bit lower than in past years, but hardly withering on the vine, even without Create Motor, Pure Stock, Stock GT, or seperate FI classes.
Also, saying that a Crate motor is exactly the same as NHRA Stocker engine is ridiculous. Although NHRA has allowed SOME combinations to use approved aftermarket cylinder heads, or similar configuration carburators, and in a few cases intake manifolds, it is hardly the same as IHRA Crate engines which can be mostly built from aftermarket pieces right out of the Summit or Jegs catalog.

10 years ago the 350/330 was using a vortec head that you can literally find on Craigslist for a couple hundred bucks. 10 year from today, the 350/330 will be using the same head. As a current CM racer, I can promise I'll never ask IHRA or "maybe" nhra to approve a bogus aluminum cylinder head even though there is the 350/385 that runs one but the specs of the engine are much different. Only aftermarket stuff you really need is maybe a block which is very unnecessary (mine is a stock 350 .060 4 bolt main, nothing special) Actually bought it off Craigslist for $250 then had it decked and honed. Got lucky it was a decent piece. most use a victor jr and a holley 750. Some guys might get crazy with the trick ring package, not me. Way to expensive and not worth it. These are not fancy or special engines. At farmington this past wknd I literally rolled off the trailer, put gas in and went to staging cause I was in a hurry (barely had time to check tire pressure which was a little low) to make a pass and still went low 6.60's.
It's a low maintenance engine that can go 100's of runs before a freshen up, as is the 350/385 with aluminum heads with a larger cam ect...

It's very simple, guys that have 25-30k in there rockets can't handle getting put on the trailer by a low budget CM. It's a pride thing. But really, when the light turns green, are you not going to go because the other guy has a crate motor?

Funny thing is, the best sportsman racer in the history of drag racing has no problem mixing it up with IHRA guys as well as numerous other guys that were even at Indy this year in stock, some who were even class winners. Simply put, if you're a racer then strap up and race regardless of your opoonents combo. If you build a car for the prestige, go to Barret Jackson.

[Rory McNeil]

A Victor single plane race intake and a Holley 750 (likely a double pumper too?) Sounds like about 2/3rds of the cars in Pro Bracket. I dount that too many NHRA racers are concerned about one of the dozen or so crate motor cars putting them on the trailer, since they are not NHRA legal anyhow, and I doubt they ever will be.

[KEN BUGAJ]

Xx

[goinbroke2]

Stocker:
Aftermarket rods, pistons, crank, cam, chain, lifters, roller rockers, valves, retainers and locks, headers, waterpump, damper, elec fan, batt...should I go on?

Crate:
Aftermarket rods, pistons, crank, cam, chain, lifters, roller rockers, valves, retainers and locks, headers, waterpump, damper, elec fan, batt

The difference? Crate motors have a different # on the intake/carb. The head is still a specific number and needs to fit those specs.

I have the parts for a M/CM if I ever get around to building it, but I'm also keeping an eye out for parts to build it as a U/SA. (of course one of those contentious 302 2bbls lol)

There are NO older cars/parts here in the rust belt. I had to drive 2 hr's to meet a guy at a truck stop to get my GT40P heads!
79 302 heads/intake and carb? Are you kidding me??? That's ebay or ordering from the States. And cast iron heads and intake ordered on line?? no postal fees there huh?

[Chris1529]

I believe that Crate Motor Cars that run in IHRA are built with the "spirit" of building a traditional stocker. I think the rules allow 10.5" tires, but I don't know of too may folks who use more than a 9" although I have never looked very close.

While it is true the bottom ends and valve train are after market for most stockers, I don't think anyone would disagree that it is considerably "easier" to use a new aluminum intake and new carburetor as opposed to scouring through junkyards looking for intakes, head castings, and carburetors. I would wager that most who have what is considered a fast traditional carbureted stocker have piles of intakes, heads, and carbs not to mention the time and effort of testing to find out which pieces actually work the best.
Some would argue that crate motor guys could or actually do the same thing, but I would bet most really don't compared with someone who has used what Mr. Hill calls a "little factory iron".

Crate Motor stockers fulfill a niche that IHRA needs, but its pretty clear to me that in most parts of the country, NHRA does not need them.

[goinbroke2]

Chris, I agree but I would add this for clarity;
If we could wander through the junk yards and u-picks and find parts for a pre 1996 car here, then it would work fine. Buy four or five intake/heads/carbs to see what flows the best etc. Problem is, its just not out there. Travel west or south a couple thousand miles and buy a truck load of parts to bring home I suppose.

What about building a newer car? Lots of post 1996 cars in the junk yards right?
Well, for ford you have the option of running a mustang...or a mustang...or possibly a mustang.

Nobody said it was easy or should be easy etc. Got it. That's not the point though. If you want new blood in the sport (who aren't retired) then don't make it such an exclusive club that only people with $$$ can play. Crate motors are not as popular out west or way down south, wonder why? (love to hit a junkyard down there someday)

I was on kijiji and saw a 64 Galaxie for sale, problem is, it doesn't have the original 352. So, either build it as a crate engine car or forget it as there's no hope in hell of ever finding the correct parts, let alone "several sets to see what's the best".
Instead, another "not feasible" car doesn't go to the track.

Anyway, those that hate will keep on hating, those that accept them will keep on building/racing them. Whatever, I just want to race and I see a crate engine as a easier/quicker/cheaper way to get there.

[Rory McNeil]

Sorry goingbroke, but thats a bit of a cop out. When I started building my 85 Mustang for M/Stock, I needed to find the correct 1 year only cylinder heads, and an intake manifold that was only used in 84 & 85, and the correct 4180 Holley carb. It did not take me long at all to obtain 6 pairs of cylinder heads, 3 intake manifolds, and 6 carbs. And none of this was thru EBay, or any internet forums, just some junkyard and swap meet scrounging, and putting out the word to Ford enthusiasts. I actually enjoyed the hunting for the needed pieces, met some interesting people and made some good contacts. Just because the local wrecking yard is not full of 30, 40 or 50 year old cars does NOT mean there is nothing available, just takes a bit of digging. I am sure with forums such as this, and Ebay, I could find dozens of these "unobtainables" in fairly short order. If the guys running 50+ year old cars that were sold in very limited numbers, (like 413 & 426 Max Wedge MoPars, 427 Fords, Hemis, 302 Z/28s etc) can find that stuff, finding much newer, and more common production stuff should be a breeze. Just takes a bit of effort. Class racing is NOT SUPPOSED to be so easy that anybody can do it. Frankly, I wish that NHRA had never allowed anywhere near as much superseded/approved stuff into Stock as they have, I would hate to see the class more diluted than it already is.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by PozQB14

10 years ago the 350/330 was using a vortec head that you can literally find on Craigslist for a couple hundred bucks. 10 year from today, the 350/330 will be using the same head. As a current CM racer, I can promise I'll never ask IHRA or "maybe" nhra to approve a bogus aluminum cylinder head even though there is the 350/385 that runs one but the specs of the engine are much different. Only aftermarket stuff you really need is maybe a block which is very unnecessary (mine is a stock 350 .060 4 bolt main, nothing special) Actually bought it off Craigslist for $250 then had it decked and honed. Got lucky it was a decent piece. most use a victor jr and a holley 750. Some guys might get crazy with the trick ring package, not me. Way to expensive and not worth it. These are not fancy or special engines. At farmington this past wknd I literally rolled off the trailer, put gas in and went to staging cause I was in a hurry (barely had time to check tire pressure which was a little low) to make a pass and still went low 6.60's.
It's a low maintenance engine that can go 100's of runs before a freshen up, as is the 350/385 with aluminum heads with a larger cam ect...

It's very simple, guys that have 25-30k in there rockets can't handle getting put on the trailer by a low budget CM. It's a pride thing. But really, when the light turns green, are you not going to go because the other guy has a crate motor?

Funny thing is, the best sportsman racer in the history of drag racing has no problem mixing it up with IHRA guys as well as numerous other guys that were even at Indy this year in stock, some who were even class winners. Simply put, if you're a racer then strap up and race regardless of your opoonents combo. If you build a car for the prestige, go to Barret Jackson.

Thanks for all of your lovely advice. But let me splain something to you. Nhra Stock racers built and or purchase their cars to run in the NHRA system. It's not our problem that you wish to run a low budget crate motor car. There are tons of races for you to attend. Enjoy your car where you are wanted. And for the record this discussion has been going on for decades and nothing has happened. And if nhra ever allows crate motor cars into Stock they won't be the low budget variety. They will be the new OEM motors and not what you're thinking at all. Get used to it!

[Dan Fahey]

Crate Motor Classes were discussed 25 years ago.
Object to build combinations to the spirit of Stock.
Nice to see Vegas, Pintos, 55/57 Chevys, Barracudas with updated combinations!
It worked and GT Classes and Pure Stock were added to round out the needs racers were asking for!

Certainly more realistic than the FS Factory ready to race cars.
I remember the pride A Stockers had when they first started breaking into the 9's.
Now talking 2 seconds for a 7 second 150 mph Stocker.
One racer wrote adding a Roll Bar to a U/SA for fear of being rear ended by an FS car...!

One other idea.
What is missing are people setting National Records in IHRA.
Setting one always creates a Buzz of Excitement...
Wish IHRA would give 5 points as incentive to do that.
It would be one of the small things that would help attract more racers.

Especially those lazy CM owners!

D

[bubski]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Thanks for all of your lovely advice. But let me splain something to you. Nhra Stock racers built and or purchase their cars to run in the NHRA system. It's not our problem that you wish to run a low budget crate motor car. There are tons of races for you to attend. Enjoy your car where you are wanted. And for the record this discussion has been going on for decades and nothing has happened. And if nhra ever allows crate motor cars into Stock they won't be the low budget variety. They will be the new OEM motors and not what you're thinking at all. Get used to it!

Bruce !! maybe you need it splained to you !! NHRA already is allowing crate motors in S/SS !! So if you don't build a new 25.000$ plus crate motor you don't count as an NHRA class racer ?? A low budget motor will be just what it is, like a traditional car without all the new enhancements. A way to race and maybe not stand a chance against the best in your class , but a way to get out there and race . So the new OEM motors aren't crate motors ?? This holier than thou hypocrisy in S/SS is amazing !! As everyone pushes for non stock parts to gain an advantage while moaning about a car you'll never race heads up .