Just a jealous "cheap shot"

[Ron Ortiz]

Have nothing but respect for them to run that fast after being hit so many times. It is NHRA's factoring system that is controversial. When the Fords were dropped into U there were several on here that predicted their #1 qualifying potential, and were right. I believe that I had heard that Mike was trying to knock the crap our of the index and didn't mind the HP. Believe me I was rooting for him so them Fords would go to T. But all they did was run faster from hard work. But NHRA can't see that, or can they, or better yet, do they care.

It took years for the Banana car to get out of U, same as the trucks. And, like any smart racer, they're not going to hit it hard so they don't get refactored. They will stay in U as long as they want, isn't the Caddy still legal for U. I'll just plug along and avoid them as much as possible.

How about this. Since Indy went to the fastest 128, let them run eliminations off the index as it relates to qualifying. Nooo, can't have that, would be boring seeing two U/SA in the final, or a U/SA and Dyers FS car. Bet they would straighten the HP factors real quick.

Oh well, it is Indy, lets have a good time and watch what happens, eliminations be coming.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA Index for elims.

[Mark Yacavone]

Ron, The 302 has 1.08 venturi @133 original net HP.
The 307 has a 1.09 venturi @168 HP (original , 130)
Cam , compression, are similar. That was Billy's point here.
It is what it is.
My point would be, if the 307's were reduced to 130 tomorrow, there might be 2 or 3 built across the whole country within a couple of years.
Many more would just sit back and complain about the soft rating, rather than building one themselves.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Ron, The 302 has 1.08 venturi @133 original net HP.
The 307 has a 1.09 venturi @168 HP (original , 130)
Cam , compression, are similar. That was Billy's point here.
It is what it is.
My point would be, if the 307's were reduced to 130 tomorrow, there might be 2 or 3 built across the whole country within a couple of years.
Many more would just sit back and complain about the soft rating, rather than building one themselves.

Mark, good point but it wasn't my point. You, Dwight and myself jointly sent a letter to the powers-that-be in the NHRA Tech Dept. years ago requesting that "obsolete" combos be given back HP or reduced to their factory rating. We got crickets from NHRA.
NHRA has always, in my humble opinion, been a "buddy club". We all pay the same dues but we don't all have to follow or play by the same rules. Certain members get certain considerations that the rest of us just aren't privy to. I guess that is just human nature but it's not fair. But then again, life ain't fair.
Do you really think that if NHRA dropped the factor on the 307 or the 304 or 318 (or 283,289,273,290,318poly,348,352,361,etc,etc,etc) only 2 or 3 would be built? I personally believe, looking at how many FFFords that have been or are being built, if you gave the un-washed masses a Chevy equivalent to the 302, there would be dozens of them out there. With the popularity of NHRA Stock, Nostalgia and Jr. Stock right now, I don't see how they wouldn't be built.
Oh well, you can have the soap box back, I'll go back to complaining about LD340s. It would be nice to see the 307 at 130 HP though, it would probably make me do a 350. And I don't fault those who take advantage of any of the NHRA "f**k-ups.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Do you really think that if NHRA dropped the factor on the 307 or the 304 or 318 (or 283,289,273,290,318poly,348,352,361,etc,etc,etc) only 2 or 3 would be built? I personally believe, looking at how many FFFords that have been or are being built, if you gave the un-washed masses a Chevy equivalent to the 302, there would be dozens of them out there. With the popularity of NHRA Stock, Nostalgia and Jr. Stock right now, I don't see how they wouldn't be built.

Re-thinking my comment.
I was meaning to say was not many would be built for the national stage.
How many Tri- 5's do you see being built since they have been brought back?
Let's face it. Most guys that can afford the 5-6 points meet / National event entry game, can afford to build a fairly late model, 10 second car that does a big wheelie for the camera.
I didn't think about the independent S/SS association races.
Yes, you are probably right that several would be built for that venue.
But NHRA doesn't get much of a piece of that action, so there's no interest there.

[DRAKE VISCOME]

Hey Billy...so... after all...the "smoke" with regard to top several qualifiers...it didn't seem to be that much in final results (?)...NEVER in anyway to take anything away from...incredible their.. accomplishments...in a word...AWESOME...just am "old" (a touch or two...maybe more than you !!!...lol) guess I'm missing something...or just haven't got up to speed on current thought process (?)...the qualifying "thing"...how that seemingly has become...well...litterally as important as the actual race results (?)...my faded memory suggests that only a few times...whether National Event level or points series stuff...do the...top 5 qualifiers or so...actually prevail/win...again willing to accept a spanking...if...I'm out of bounds here...as Ricky Ricardo used to say "splain to me Lucy"...lol...believe me...I sincerely have lots & lots of regard for you & Mark (and others)...who have done/accomplished so much...with so little...me...accomplished...not too much...with a lot !!! lol...BUT...I have ownership (55+ years of it) of more than my fair share of the 8 million "stories" (not all fit for public consumption) in the Naked City...and...that's the whole truth...nothing...but the truth...!!!...would you be kind enough to just "tune me up" a bit (bring me into modern ages)...about this whole qualifying deal ???...maybe just time to put away shoe polish for the windows... thanx Billy...always wishing you continued good health...success...imagine that !!! Drake

[kansas stocker]

A class trophy at Indy is an important thing to a lot of people including me.
Just asking for a level playing field.
Pete

[DRAKE VISCOME]

Hey Pete...for sure I am on-board with the "importance" of winning class/trophy @ National event...I am...one lucky guy...in this life...so imagine...been there...done that...more than once (told ya' am LUCKY)...lol...presently trying to accomplish same for our twin boys...far-far fewer class events...so in this imperfect world...just yet another hurdle...a tall one too...the level playing field you speak of...is "dreamworld" mentality...it's never been "level" per se'...at least in my "few" years of involvement in sport of drag racing (1958 forward)...most of my years...were beyond the stock/super stock "realm" (category)...silly me thought great place to start with our boys...whoa' Wilbur...have found any success...doesn't happen ez...at all...!!!...the week to week competition/circuits...are tough...really tough...let alone Divisional/National event stuff...amazing...so for me...I'm here to tell you...I'm not counting on someone (NHRA-IHRA) making/creating a level playing field for me...purr-fection...surely would be welcome...kind of akin to Catherine Zeta Jones...knocking on my door to "socialize" this evening...lol...U get the idea !!! Drake p.s. as you say...most of us on this "site" not exactly doing this as a business...it's whatever enjoyment we embrace from our participation..nothing more...nothing less...!!!

[DRAKE VISCOME]

Yikes Ron...that's why am sitting here in Carolinas'...reading about it...90 to qualify...@ #128...way better "cats" in Indy...than me/my stuff...!!! lol...not givin' up...anytime soon...just yet...but a tip of the "fedora" is well due to all 128+ !!! awesome job to ALL... Drake

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Have nothing but respect for them to run that fast after being hit so many times..

Ron, there is a more complicating issue with the Fords. While the Grahams and Summers have been hit several times this year, their current combinations are not included. That's the reason they both switched to Mustangs. The 163 factor for the 76 302 that was accomplished in the Maverick applies to every 1976 Ford model except the Mustang. The Mustang remains at 133. Every time I try to make sense out of that, I just spin in my chair and short circuit. Seeburg's Comet is still at factory rated 143 and has not been hit.

So it will take mega-years at this rate to get them straightened out, especially since there is a 10 year spread of cars (1971-1980) that those guys can resource.

[Rory McNeil]

Just to set the record straight, Brian Seaberg , Steve Horton, and a couple of other guys were racing the same 302 2 barrel Fords for years before NHRA reduced the HP ratings back to factory numbers. Seaburgs Comet was a P&Q/SA car at that time. In fact, I had considered building a 79 Fairmont 302 2 barrel 4 speed combo in the early 2000s, but at that time, NHRA had bumped pretty much all the 302-318 sized 2 barrel smogger engines to 200 HP, so building my 85 Mustang 302 4 barrel just made more sense. Over the recent past, NHRA dropped the 302 2 barrel engines down to 180, 170, and eventually 165HP, before reducing them down to their factory HP ratings, which varied from 129-145 depending on year and car model. Unlike many other more mainstream combos, at least these low HP Ford 302s are actually wearing their factory issued, correct part number heads, intake manifolds and carbs, not a bunch of NHRA approved, superceded "not worth a thing performancewise" aftermarket aluminum heads, intakes, and carburators.