Within Stock rules???

[Bill Diehl]

Originally Posted by Mike Keener

Jim Mantle,

No they will not be tossed because this engine has been deemed legal by NHRA since it's inception in 2012 for either Stock Eliminator and or the Factory Shootout.

Larry and Joseph,

I don't agree the Shootout cars that do not make the quick 8 should not be allowed to compete in Stock Eliminator. However, I do agree that once they are placed in the Stock Eliminator field they should go to the bottom of the ladder and no longer be exempt from the AHFS for the balance of the event.

I agree with this

[jmantle]

[QUOTE=Mike Keener;499897]Jim Mantle,

No they will not be tossed because this engine has been deemed legal by NHRA since it's inception in 2012 for either Stock Eliminator and or the Factory Shootout.

The reason I brought this up goes back to the rule book, I don't see any exemptions for cars originally equipped with titanium parts, valves or retainers.

"engines OEM-equipped with sodium-filled valves may use sodiumfilled replacement valves. Titanium prohibited"

"Any valve spring permitted, provided no modification to head is performed. Steel valve-spring retainers mandatory."

Jim Mantle 6632

[Dwight Southerland]

Jim - Both of those rules are in reference to replacement parts. The first rule about the valves was inserted at a time when the allowance for parts was not as liberal as it is now. Some versions of 427 Fords came from the factory with hollow stem sodium filled exhaust valves. The factory was the only source for the valves and discontinued production. Some racers petitioned to allow titanium valves as replacements since the hollow stem valves were lighter than available solid stem valves. There was some controversy that started because the West coast tech guys thought it was all right, but every body else did not. When it was pointed out that the titanium valves deviated considerably from the shape of the original valve and provided a two-fold advantage, i.e. lighter weight than even the hollow steel valves and increased airflow, the prohibition on titanium replacement valves was the solution. The second rule was included in the change to the rule to allow replacement spring retainers. When the rule was first drafted, it merely stated that replacement retainers were allowed. Of course the ingenious racers interpreted that to mean that ANY retainer was okay, including replacement titanium retainers. The additional statement prohibiting titanium was added to solve that. In both cases, the rule pertains to replacement parts, not OEM equipped. The factories can do whatever they want as long as NHRA accepts it, which is what we are seeing in the shootout cars.

[seansimp925]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

The factories can do whatever they want as long as NHRA accepts it, which is what we are seeing in the shootout cars.

Until they change their mind after you've already built all the engines based on an approved TI sheet.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by seansimp925

Until they change their mind after you've already built all the engines based on an approved TI sheet.

Ain't life grand!!

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Ain't life grand!!

Kinda reminds me of the old days with TOP STOCK......

[Mike Keener]

Say what you will about Top Stock but Terry Bell and I will never regret starting this class way back in 2000 and we can't thank Bill Bader and IHRA enough for giving us a stage to show what heads up competition in Stock Eliminator was really capable of.

Hindsight being 20-20 our only regret was allowing GM to institute crate motors in to this otherwise fantastic class. It always comes down to money and IHRA wanted their sponsorship but with it came the spoils. Once this fantastic eliminator was infiltrated with crate motors and eventual endless rule changes, etc., it was all over but the shouting.

I would bet dollars to donuts that had it remained a pure A-B-C- Stock Eliminator class per NHRA rules it would not only still be alive and well, but would have remained every bit as popular, if not more, than it was at Norwalk 2000.

The thing to remember about heads up racing is this. Nobody gives a damn about how fast the cars go as long the first car to the finish line wins-with no breakout!

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Mike Keener

Say what you will about Top Stock but Terry Bell and I will never regret starting this class way back in 2000 and we can't thank Bill Bader and IHRA enough for giving us a stage to show what heads up competition in Stock Eliminator was really capable of.

Hindsight being 20-20 our only regret was allowing GM to institute crate motors in to this otherwise fantastic class. It always comes down to money and IHRA wanted their sponsorship but with it came the spoils. Once this fantastic eliminator was infiltrated with crate motors and eventual endless rule changes, etc., it was all over but the shouting.

I would bet dollars to donuts that had it remained a pure A-B-C- Stock Eliminator class per NHRA rules it would not only still be alive and well, but would have remained every bit as popular, if not more, than it was at Norwalk 2000.

The thing to remember about heads up racing is this. Nobody gives a damn about how fast the cars go as long the first car to the finish line wins-with no breakout!

Mike, I absolutely loved Top Stock...it ranks right up there with night baseball and sliced bread. I agree that Crate Motors led to its demise..

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Mike Keener

Say what you will about Top Stock but Terry Bell and I will never regret starting this class way back in 2000 and we can't thank Bill Bader and IHRA enough for giving us a stage to show what heads up competition in Stock Eliminator was really capable of.

Hindsight being 20-20 our only regret was allowing GM to institute crate motors in to this otherwise fantastic class. It always comes down to money and IHRA wanted their sponsorship but with it came the spoils. Once this fantastic eliminator was infiltrated with crate motors and eventual endless rule changes, etc., it was all over but the shouting.

I would bet dollars to donuts that had it remained a pure A-B-C- Stock Eliminator class per NHRA rules it would not only still be alive and well, but would have remained every bit as popular, if not more, than it was at Norwalk 2000.

The thing to remember about heads up racing is this. Nobody gives a damn about how fast the cars go as long the first car to the finish line wins-with no breakout!

I am with you 100% on this Mike. And I think there is a missed opportunity out there for the Top Stock and Junior Stock programs.

[Mike Keener]

Thanks Dwight and Mike

It's nice to hear that quality racers like yourselves knew and loved the opportunity that once presented itself. Those first couple of seasons were nothing short of phenomenal for sure!

I agree with Dwight specifically about the fact that there is definitely a missed opportunity out there currently for Top Stock and Junior Stock programs. I would love it if either or both could be resurrected!

There is no reason the current Factory Showdown cars should be the only form of heads up racing for Sportsman Racers. If all it would take is sponsor to step up and offer NHRA the proposal I don't see a reason good enough that they wouldn't listen to it.

In fact it makes me wonder if Mike Dunn would be interested?? Hmmm....