Within Stock rules??? - Page 3

Tony Corley · 03-26-2016, 07:16 PM

The Sam's guys are smart and know the rules. I would be willing to bet that they would pass teardown anywhere.

Peter Ash · 03-26-2016, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

The Sam's guys are smart and know the rules. I would be willing to bet that they would pass teardown anywhere.

Stock Cars Section 10A, page 3

CYLINDER HEADS

Porting, polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited

External modifications prohibited.

and from the article "http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...liminator-ls7/"

“The maximum intake port volume we’re allowed is 275cc, so we milled down the intake flange surface to shorten up the length of the port just slightly. This gives us some extra room to touch up the short-turn radius, bowl, and valve job area and increase the cross-section a bit without exceeding the cc limit,” Judson reveals.

hmmm?

Tony Corley · 03-26-2016, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ash

Stock Cars Section 10A, page 3

CYLINDER HEADS

Porting, polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited

External modifications prohibited.

and from the article "http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...liminator-ls7/"

“The maximum intake port volume we’re allowed is 275cc, so we milled down the intake flange surface to shorten up the length of the port just slightly. This gives us some extra room to touch up the short-turn radius, bowl, and valve job area and increase the cross-section a bit without exceeding the cc limit,” Judson reveals.

hmmm?

The heads come from the factory cnc ported. When you can start with a bare, unported version and run your own cnc program, you can make it virtually undetectable. If you read my statement, I said those guys are smart, and I would bet money it would pass teardown. And if it can pass teardown, then it must be legal, right?

Peter Ash · 03-26-2016, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

The heads come from the factory cnc ported. When you can start with a bare, unported version and run your own cnc program, you can make it virtually undetectable. If you read my statement, I said those guys are smart, and I would bet money it would pass teardown. And if it can pass teardown, then it must be legal, right?

After publishing their sneaky bits, they should get to experience an immediate and thorough looky loo!

Dan Fahey · 03-26-2016, 08:00 PM

These engines are 1970 Pro Stock Engines!

Tony Corley · 03-26-2016, 08:04 PM

[QUOTE=Peter Ash;499395]After publishing their sneaky bits, they should get to experience an immediate and thorough looky loo![/QUOTE

Still willing to bet they will be just fine if they do.

Tony Corley · 03-26-2016, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

These engines are 1970 Pro Stock Engines!

They are way more advanced than that, lol

Mike Keener · 03-26-2016, 08:11 PM

There is nothing illegal about what ERL does to an otherwise stock GM block that bears the correct casting number. Here are the facts. The GM block as it comes from the factory is JUNK and is not usable beyond .005 over bore so there is no good reason for a serious racer trying to win in the Factory Shootout to leave the "maximum allowable" over bore rule on the table just because GM built a crappy block. If GM had built a "decent block" for these engines in the first place the work ERL does would not be necessary.

The only other legal option is to run a replacement LSX block that is easily over bored to the maximum allowable specification. However, there are not to many COPO's that can deal with the extra 100 or so pounds on the nose and still be able to race at the minimum weight for the Shootout.

Why do I know this stuff you might ask? The reason is because I did it and the LSX iron block over a sleeved block that is prepped correct!y is maybe 5 hp MAX which is not worth putting 100# on the nose of the car. However, the gain from an LSX block compared to a "stock" COPO block is worth at least 25 HP, but this is largely due to the gain from the extra cubic inches that can't be achieved with a stock GM aluminum block.

Bottom line is that it costs money to go fast, and going fast just isn't for everybody. Doesn't mean those of us that wish to compete at the very highest level shouldn't be able to do it with a clear conscience as long as there is nothing illegal in doing so.

Ed Wright · 03-26-2016, 08:14 PM

Very well said.

Tony Corley · 03-26-2016, 08:14 PM

Great reply Mike Keener^^^^^^^^^

03-26-2016, 07:16 PM	#21
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Within Stock rules??? The Sam's guys are smart and know the rules. I would be willing to bet that they would pass teardown anywhere.

03-26-2016, 08:00 PM	#25
Dan Fahey VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,128 Likes: 1,084 Liked 184 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Within Stock rules??? These engines are 1970 Pro Stock Engines!

03-26-2016, 08:04 PM	#26
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Within Stock rules??? [QUOTE=Peter Ash;499395]After publishing their sneaky bits, they should get to experience an immediate and thorough looky loo![/QUOTE Still willing to bet they will be just fine if they do.

03-26-2016, 08:11 PM	#28
Mike Keener Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 294 Likes: 102 Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Within Stock rules??? There is nothing illegal about what ERL does to an otherwise stock GM block that bears the correct casting number. Here are the facts. The GM block as it comes from the factory is JUNK and is not usable beyond .005 over bore so there is no good reason for a serious racer trying to win in the Factory Shootout to leave the "maximum allowable" over bore rule on the table just because GM built a crappy block. If GM had built a "decent block" for these engines in the first place the work ERL does would not be necessary. The only other legal option is to run a replacement LSX block that is easily over bored to the maximum allowable specification. However, there are not to many COPO's that can deal with the extra 100 or so pounds on the nose and still be able to race at the minimum weight for the Shootout. Why do I know this stuff you might ask? The reason is because I did it and the LSX iron block over a sleeved block that is prepped correct!y is maybe 5 hp MAX which is not worth putting 100# on the nose of the car. However, the gain from an LSX block compared to a "stock" COPO block is worth at least 25 HP, but this is largely due to the gain from the extra cubic inches that can't be achieved with a stock GM aluminum block. Bottom line is that it costs money to go fast, and going fast just isn't for everybody. Doesn't mean those of us that wish to compete at the very highest level shouldn't be able to do it with a clear conscience as long as there is nothing illegal in doing so. __________________ Mike Keener A/S B/S C/SM

03-26-2016, 08:14 PM	#29
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Within Stock rules??? Very well said. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

03-26-2016, 08:14 PM	#30
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Within Stock rules??? Great reply Mike Keener^^^^^^^^^