Hemi Head Ruling

Tom Meyer · 03-10-2013, 09:56 AM

I have no dog in this fight, but I have been racing in super stock since the mid eightys, before the ported heads deal came along. When they allowed port head deal came along some guys got crazy with rolling the heads over and getting into the valve cover bolt hole mostly small block chevys at the time, that is when the rule was put into place must of been mid 90s. I know if I show up in tech with my small block chevy head with it rolled over so far that there was no valve cover holes I would be DQ no questions asked. Then came the combustion camber rule guys got inventive with it some were dq for that, nhra had cutawys with them to see if your heads were legal. Every time people get caught cheating they start crying I spent all this time and money becuse I thought I could. And every time this happens it usely cost 99 percent of the rest of the racers more money to stay competive and you guys wonder why we lose racers every year. Just because you have taken the easy road to get your hp and now want to twist the rules to your advantage and then say but everybody else does it, does not make it right. Just remember you started this thread and you will be judged by your peers just some will not speech up. Tom

Spyphish · 03-10-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

Remember you started this thread and you will be juged by your pers just some will not speech up. Tom

Amen Brother Tom. They better bring plenty of gaskets to Belle Rose!

Ego over ethics.

Stewart Way · 03-10-2013, 02:02 PM

David
You say that "Anything that is a repeat rule is rewritten in the Super Stock section". That is not true. In Stock is says that the leading and trailing edge of wheel opening can be trimmed. It is not rewritten in SS section. There are several rules that carry over fron S to SS that are not rewritten in SS and there are several rules from S that are rewritten in SS word for word. Also some that are changed. This is where the confision may come from. There is no carb section in SS but that doesnt mean we have no rules. It means we follow the S rules. There are others but the point is if not CHANGED for SS it is as written in S. My examples came from the 2012 rulebook but I think 2013 is the same. The problem is that there is no set pattern to what NHRA rewrites in the SS section and what they don't. The Cyl Head section is the perfect example. They rewrite part but not all of the section. But anything that is allowed in SS and not in S is written out. Nowhere does it say in the SS section that you can cut into the VC bolt holes so since there is no change to the S section rule on that, as Peter pointed out, the S rule applies.
The fact that NHRA Tech has allowed it to get where it has does not change the rule book and the intent, only what is enforced.

Spyphish · 03-12-2013, 02:15 PM

Well, I just recieved a clarification on the external mod rule from NHRA. I was trying to schedule my head inspection at Belle Rose as per my letter after Indy. External mods are now approved for AH ie the whole sentence "excepts" AH. Spacers are fine. Heck, lug nuts cool too.

So I am Happy Gilmore apologizing to Chubbs (Two Scoop)

"I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good-looking. I'm not attractive." And Two Scoop goes

"All right all right, as long as you're willing to admit all that."

I am over it all, just got B-slapped for the last three years. Now let's just grind on. Hemi TARP program.

Dwight Southerland · 03-12-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyphish

Hemi TARP program.

Break over laughing .

David Barton · 03-12-2013, 09:59 PM

Stewart, that's not what I meant. I realize the rules for sections like the carburetors cross over. I was saying that if a section is written in Super Stock, it replaces whatever it said in Stock. If that wasn't the case then nobody can run head studs either. It says in Stock, cylinder head studs prohibited, and nothing in Super Stock. This is no different than the valve cover bolt hole issue. But like you said, the key is enforcement. Whatever the rules are they need to be the same for everyone.

This whole thread was started because I wanted to shed some light on the situation. I sat around for months while guys were accusing us of cheating and ruining the class. I want nothing more than to protect the rules and play fair. We have been cutting into the valve cover bolt holes forever and have been through teardown enough times to fill our wall full of records. And not once did I ever hear anything from anybody about valve cover bolt holes. If it was illegal you would think somebody in the last few decades would have said something.

Either way we're moving on and going racing. We're super excited to go down South and support the cause while others just use it as another excuse to not go racing.

Dinsdale · 03-12-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barton

We have been cutting into the valve cover bolt holes forever and have been through teardown enough times to fill our wall full of records. And not once did I ever hear anything from anybody about valve cover bolt holes. If it was illegal you would think somebody in the last few decades would have said something.

As far as I can tell it was illegal right up until the "EXCEPT AH" was recently added.

NHRA RULE AMMENDMENTS MADE FROM THE END OF THE 2012 SEASON TO THE BEGINNING OF THE 2013 SEASON
2 3
Super Stock cylinder-head volumes as listed on www.NHRARacer.com. Regardless of the poured volume measurement, any modifications to intake or exhaust runners prohibited. Any evidence of modifications from the original castings will be grounds for disqualifications as determined by NHRA in NHRAâ€™s sole and absolute discretion. Any aftermarket steel valve permitted, must retain stock head and stem diameters. Only engines OEM-equipped with sodium-filled valves may use sodium-filled replacement valves. Titanium prohibited. Hardened keepers permitted. Lash caps prohibited. Valve-diameter tolerance: +.005- inch or -.015-inch from NHRA Specs. The following are prohibited: spark-plug adapters; cylinder-head studs; any grinding in ports or combustion chambers; removal of any flashings; sandblasting or any other modification to cylinder head; any film coating of intake and exhaust runners; any film coating of combustion chamber. Runners and combustion chamber must retain OEM appearance. Final acceptance as determined by NHRA in NHRAâ€™s sole and absolute discretion.

Intake side of head may not be cut into any part of valve cover bolt holes. Valve cover bolt holes must remain unaltered and in their original location.

Heat riser passage may be blocked from intake manifold side of cylinder head. Blocking passage down in valve pocket prohibited. The following are permitted: polylocks, jam nuts, screw-in larger-diameter rocker studs or pinned studs, bronze-wall valve guides. Valve spring umbrellas optional. Cylinder head may have all of the seats replaced. Any valve job permitted,Oringing prohibited. Exhaust plates prohibited.

Spyphish · 03-28-2013, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barton

This whole thread was started because I wanted to shed some light on the situation. I sat around for months while guys were accusing us of cheating and ruining the class. I want nothing more than to protect the rules and play fair. We have been cutting into the valve cover bolt holes forever and have been through teardown enough times to fill our wall full of records. And not once did I ever hear anything from anybody about valve cover bolt holes. If it was illegal you would think somebody in the last few decades would have said something.

Either way we're moving on and going racing. We're super excited to go down South and support the cause while others just use it as another excuse to not go racing.

Two Scoop: From NHRA today

Racers to be able to easily obtain factory correct components which will be tuned and modified within existing rules (not redesigned) to maximize performance capability

For your convenience I have it in French

Coureurs Ã* pouvoir obtenir facilement les composants corrects d'usine qui seront accordÃ©s et modifiÃ©s dans des rÃ¨gles existantes (non remodelÃ©es) pour maximiser la capacitÃ© de reprÃ©sentation

Me and the Robinsons are HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY

03-10-2013, 09:56 AM	#1
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 936 Likes: 78 Liked 354 Times in 120 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling I have no dog in this fight, but I have been racing in super stock since the mid eightys, before the ported heads deal came along. When they allowed port head deal came along some guys got crazy with rolling the heads over and getting into the valve cover bolt hole mostly small block chevys at the time, that is when the rule was put into place must of been mid 90s. I know if I show up in tech with my small block chevy head with it rolled over so far that there was no valve cover holes I would be DQ no questions asked. Then came the combustion camber rule guys got inventive with it some were dq for that, nhra had cutawys with them to see if your heads were legal. Every time people get caught cheating they start crying I spent all this time and money becuse I thought I could. And every time this happens it usely cost 99 percent of the rest of the racers more money to stay competive and you guys wonder why we lose racers every year. Just because you have taken the easy road to get your hp and now want to twist the rules to your advantage and then say but everybody else does it, does not make it right. Just remember you started this thread and you will be judged by your peers just some will not speech up. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ??? Last edited by Tom Meyer; 03-10-2013 at 08:34 PM. Reason: my spelling sucks ken should have spell check

03-10-2013, 02:02 PM	#3
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling David You say that "Anything that is a repeat rule is rewritten in the Super Stock section". That is not true. In Stock is says that the leading and trailing edge of wheel opening can be trimmed. It is not rewritten in SS section. There are several rules that carry over fron S to SS that are not rewritten in SS and there are several rules from S that are rewritten in SS word for word. Also some that are changed. This is where the confision may come from. There is no carb section in SS but that doesnt mean we have no rules. It means we follow the S rules. There are others but the point is if not CHANGED for SS it is as written in S. My examples came from the 2012 rulebook but I think 2013 is the same. The problem is that there is no set pattern to what NHRA rewrites in the SS section and what they don't. The Cyl Head section is the perfect example. They rewrite part but not all of the section. But anything that is allowed in SS and not in S is written out. Nowhere does it say in the SS section that you can cut into the VC bolt holes so since there is no change to the S section rule on that, as Peter pointed out, the S rule applies. The fact that NHRA Tech has allowed it to get where it has does not change the rule book and the intent, only what is enforced. __________________ Stewart Way 2424 SS

03-12-2013, 02:15 PM	#4
Spyphish Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 846 Likes: 16 Liked 679 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling Well, I just recieved a clarification on the external mod rule from NHRA. I was trying to schedule my head inspection at Belle Rose as per my letter after Indy. External mods are now approved for AH ie the whole sentence "excepts" AH. Spacers are fine. Heck, lug nuts cool too. So I am Happy Gilmore apologizing to Chubbs (Two Scoop) "I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good-looking. I'm not attractive." And Two Scoop goes "All right all right, as long as you're willing to admit all that." I am over it all, just got B-slapped for the last three years. Now let's just grind on. Hemi TARP program.

03-12-2013, 09:59 PM	#6
David Barton Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 199 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling Stewart, that's not what I meant. I realize the rules for sections like the carburetors cross over. I was saying that if a section is written in Super Stock, it replaces whatever it said in Stock. If that wasn't the case then nobody can run head studs either. It says in Stock, cylinder head studs prohibited, and nothing in Super Stock. This is no different than the valve cover bolt hole issue. But like you said, the key is enforcement. Whatever the rules are they need to be the same for everyone. This whole thread was started because I wanted to shed some light on the situation. I sat around for months while guys were accusing us of cheating and ruining the class. I want nothing more than to protect the rules and play fair. We have been cutting into the valve cover bolt holes forever and have been through teardown enough times to fill our wall full of records. And not once did I ever hear anything from anybody about valve cover bolt holes. If it was illegal you would think somebody in the last few decades would have said something. Either way we're moving on and going racing. We're super excited to go down South and support the cause while others just use it as another excuse to not go racing. Last edited by David Barton; 03-12-2013 at 10:04 PM.