Hemi Head Ruling

[David Barton]

Originally Posted by jaythorne

Today's intakes are tunnel rams with offset carbs.... Crossrams have crossed runners

Hi Jay, thanks for the reminder. This is another great experience I had with NHRA's BS. I drove 3000 miles to Mission, BC to fight Harry Holton for the SS/AA record. By the way, it was an awesome experience. Definitely one of the best trips, great air, great track, great people out there.

We came to find out that NHRA was letting Holton put his carbs inline. He set the record that way. To make a long story short, we made our own version as soon as we got home. I went to the next race which was the Englishtown National Event, and was thrown out of tech by Bob Lang. I told Bob I agreed it was bogus, but the West coast gang was running the exact same setup and set a record. He said, "Not in my division".

Guess what happened next. They made a rule change after the race. Then it eventually turned into a tunnel ram. I don't blame Bob, he knew what the rules were and tried to enforce them, but was eventually overruled.

[jaythorne]

Didn't baughman set a record with an inline first?...been a long time ago my memory may be foggy

[Jared Jordan]

We definitely weren't the first to run an inline. Bob Jenkins had one on their Dart long before the Ogburn/WCH days. Can't speak for Baughman.

Personally, I hate the tunnel rams. Wasn't a fan of bringing the carbs inline either. I realize rule changes help make them faster. If builders didn't "innovate," the cars might still be in the 10's. I guess I just like the idea of pulling the hood on an SS car and seeing something that resembles the factory piece beyond the valve covers.

BTW, David, that manifold you're referring to is still at the shop. I can send you a pic if you feel like waxing nostalgic. Lol

[wendell howes]

David The way this started was we asked NHRA if we could cut into the bolt holes at the vavle covers surface and they said no no no.They did not say this was for Barton only so I thought it was for all AH cars.One year late we are here.

[Jeff Teuton]

NHRA is working on a Hemi Tech Card 2013. Will be publilshed later. Goes into much more detail. Such items as 'Distance from package shelf to required original floor'. I think 14" is the correct answer, now that 'original floor', proabably aint none out there. And that is one of the easy questions.

[Spyphish]

Originally Posted by David Barton

Hi Jay, thanks for the reminder. This is another great experience I had with NHRA's BS. I drove 3000 miles to Mission, BC to fight Harry Holton for the SS/AA record. By the way, it was an awesome experience. Definitely one of the best trips, great air, great track, great people out there.

We came to find out that NHRA was letting Holton put his carbs inline.

Since we are reminiscing about Hemi stories, I will never forget my 2nd Indy two years ago. I was a rookie with a fairly fast car (R&M’s 1st attempt), number six Q I think behind the Hatfield & McCoy team cars. I went red in round two against a young “Top Gun” driver for the McCoys. I was actually faster than him on that run. That’s why I support the win on a red light rule mentioned in the first post. He was Maverick and Ice Man all rolled into one. The Hatfield cars had left the night before as gravity had relocated their #1 intake valves to unwelcome areas of their motors. So I just watched in awe as the young driver mowed down one side of the ladder while their other McCoy team car “took care of business” on the other side. They were destined to be in the final. The young man was rapidly becoming my idol and hopefully my mentor one day. Then right before the semis a small riot seemed to be starting at his rig. I scurried over to see what was happening. Someone shouted “Where the heck did he get that tall hood scoop, from the movie CARS??” The young man calmly said “Fellas, fellas wait just a minute.” He moseyed (we mosey in the South), he moseyed into the stacker and came out with ANOTHER (YES ANOTHER) perfectly painted matching hood with a legal 4 inch scoop to CALM the masses and finish the race. NHRA said NOProblemO. WOW! I had heard stories of an old hemi car in the Northeast called “Two Scoop Lido” but I was standing in the presence of none other than TWO SCOOP DAVE. Man, I would be honored to pay to letter that on his many famous cars. I asked my car builder John why I didn’t have two hoods? Did everyone go to Indy with two hoods?? “NOPE, not needed if you have the correct 4” scoop” he said .
Now on a serious note Two Scoop, you “kicked this skunk” starting this “holier than thou” thread calling people cheaters. I have never seen Charlie or his Dad changing hoods in a race. Their arbor was somewhat hidden. My chrome bolts were not as this was a car show and a drag race broke out. As for me, I have my cheater letter and ya’ll can call me “Screwhead Steve”. Welcome to the fraternity.
PS: I do respect you going to work every day in the family business to provide for your beautiful young family. Just stay off the internet when you’re in a glass house. Stephen

PS 2 Larry, that's my color...

[SSDA Hemi]

Two scoop Lido! That's some funny stuff right there!!

BUT- this story only reinforces David's allegations! If he was in a glass house he would've finished the race with the tall scoop and the following week an addendum to the rules added allowing tall scoops,

I'm all for tickling the rule right to the legal limit. But this 1/2 Hemi head stuff just doesn't do it for me

[jaythorne]

RPM is the killer here....i may be wrong but if the intake rule had been enforced then the need for such crazy head flow would ouf been lesser..
wonder what the cars would be running if we went back to real crossrams...and would it affect the rpms that seem to be the norm now??? david???charlie???....need a rule like farm boy pullin tractors have???rpm telltale ...limit to 8800

[cutta]

Originally Posted by jaythorne

RPM is the killer here....i may be wrong but if the intake rule had been enforced then the need for such crazy head flow would ouf been lesser..
wonder what the cars would be running if we went back to real crossrams...and would it affect the rpms that seem to be the norm now??? david???charlie???....need a rule like farm boy pullin tractors have???rpm telltale ...limit to 8800

That would depend on how short you could get the runners in relation to the plenum and if there would be any deficiencies in the air/fuel mix due to the cross ram configuration. The rpm their running probably has much more to do with the valvetrain innovation than anything else I think. Between Charlie and David, they have gotten the valvetrain much better in recent years.



On another note, is Super Stock another world where your only going fast if your cheating(knowingly breaking/stretching rules)?

[SSDA Hemi]

The biggest problem with this rule right now is the way it is written. It leaves way too much room for interpretation! With the creativity and $ in AH right now, it may start initially as a 1 inch manifold spacer, but how long until the spacer is 3 inches with the inner had studs being utilized and it actually serves as the rocker stand! The only thing stopping it is the combustion chamber and its just a matter of time before it becomes a section of that. That will make cc'ing a Hemi head in tear down fun!