Bring back super/mod...

[John Leichtamer Jr]

I would like to hear what Mike Keener
thought about this thread.

He was one of the best when it came
to modified racing.


Hammer

[Robert Swartz]

So, what are we talking here.

Are these cars going to required to have full roll cages?

9.0-9.50 lbs - cubic in, max 366

750 cfm carb - whats the FI equivalent? It's a new world, the younger FI guys need to be included?

10.5 tire

stock or "stock type" suspension, minor inboard movement of the rear suspension for tire clearence, no FWD conversions

$500 claim for cylinder heads-let us run whatever head you want, no porting or polishing, welding, port plates, ect, my point, you blow everybody away, if I'm there, your heads are going home with me

Shortblock-stock or steel rods, any compression,stock oiling system, no externals, dry sumps, ect

allow 150lb weight break for automatics-only reason I say this, much as we would all like to see a stick only class, there are more autos out there

Just a few random thoughts on Sunday. I'm off to the track.

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by Robert Swartz

So, what are we talking here.

Are these cars going to required to have full roll cages?

9.0-9.50 lbs - cubic in, max 366

750 cfm carb - whats the FI equivalent? It's a new world, the younger FI guys need to be included?

10.5 tire

stock or "stock type" suspension, minor inboard movement of the rear suspension for tire clearence, no FWD conversions

$500 claim for cylinder heads-let us run whatever head you want, no porting or polishing, welding, port plates, ect, my point, you blow everybody away, if I'm there, your heads are going home with me

Shortblock-stock or steel rods, any compression,stock oiling system, no externals, dry sumps, ect

allow 150lb weight break for automatics-only reason I say this, much as we would all like to see a stick only class, there are more autos out there

Just a few random thoughts on Sunday. I'm off to the track.

Some food for thought with the 150 lb weight break for autos-

Randy has suggested making the driver use the clutch pedal to shift gears in the man trans (and I think it is a good idea) and only allowing a single disk clutch. Imo a good liteweight 3 speed automatic could probably run as fast as the clutch car in that set up, probably quicker in the eigth mile without the weight break....and I would expect , at least in the beginning, some of these races will be held at eigth mile only venues.

Also, the people that choose to run the automatic will probably have 2 complete liteweight trans @ $4000 each and a pile of converters at $800 each.....the investment will be too high for many people to make the switch to a manual trans, and if an auto trans and converter company ends up sponsoring the class well......

Maybe 50 lbs reduction for a glide would be a good start. But I think the focus should be on making the class unique- drivers using the clutch pedal, and higher rpm small blocks.

Automatics can race anywhere, anytime. Make the Super Modifieds a unique place for manual trans cars.

[BlueOval Ralph]

This much I can tell you from having lived and breathed Super Modified in the beginning and I am sure FJ and Mike will back this up it was not cheap then and hard to police with the rules then. With all the rules everybody wants do you really think NHRA will support this. When Voeglin proposed the first rules in 1974 it was to be a Heads up Elminator just like the first CarCraft Econo Dragster rules around 1971 or 1972!

Just survey Voeglin Daniels FJ Houser Stevens Ed Wright Fadely
Keener and Merc only ran SM a short time in 75 They were the Kings of D/MP C/MP and E/MP

Originally Posted by John Leichtamer Jr

I would like to hear what Mike Keener
thought about this thread.

He was one of the best when it came
to modified racing.


Hammer

[randy wilson]

Super mod was a great class, I'm sure. It was, and still could be very entertaining. But, it didn't have a $500 cylinder head exchange-claimer. That would surely keep the cost down. I'm like the one guy, you dominate, there will be a fight fight those heads. We have to be realistic, and let existing back-halfed cars in. The claimer head rule, is far better then the claim the whole engine rule, or sealed motors.

[BlueOval Ralph]

The heads were very simple then
Only ported 1 inch down from seat
1/4 inch intake port match
Any chamber mods except welding
Stock valve stem dia
Cast intakes no external mods not even painting
Carb not mods only removing choke blade
Roll cage could not go forward of firewall

[randy wilson]

The Brodix spec head is cnc'd 1\2 in. or more into the intake port from the factory. The exhaust is untouched. Most cars already have the roll cage in front of the firewall.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

I agree with the idea. Make it cheap by making it very limited. Cubic inch and wts. One carb size, No sheet metal manifolds, No Box, Stick or Auto doesnt matter . Stock Crank sizes. Flat top Pistons. Trophy Only prize except contingency. List the bodies legal, Duster, Nova, Camaro. Cage, 4 link, 9 inch rear or 12 bolt or Dana.

It will never happen Dick. Someone would have to actually tear these cars down to verify the winner is legal. That means paying someone who knows what they are looking at.

Come on Mike...no FWD-conversion "jelly bean" cars. The sanction body wants new cars, not antiques.

While the idea is great, it will never happen, but it is fun to dream.

[Dick Butler]

It may be a dream but a definite "nitch" in class racing not being used to get new racers.
Jim Boburka and I had proposed similar Spec car 4or 5 years ago to combat costs and "factoring" issues. Name the motor in ANY legal SS or S chassis. That would cut costs for current racers. They could move to this class with next cheaper engine build and not have to replace their car. Younger could purchase retiring cars. I bet if NHRA had a big money company approach with a "sealed motor" to help in that area it would work.
Admit it the aged racer population is dwindling and entry level is not Stk or SS. It could all become .90 brackets and that would be sad end of heads up racing in my humble opinion.

Consider this fact, I think true Heads up racers would even accept a ONE brand motor class if it cut the cost to 1/3 and made it entry level. This would be about survival of Heads up and racers in general. Chrysler is fine with its AH program if you can afford them. Many other racing organizations have gone to more generic car and compete on DRIVER skills, Tuning skills. ETC. Its time to rethink fun,, driving and tuning with less $ in the equation.

[D.Johns]

ROTFLOL (now there is some hip language )

Cheap heads-up

That's like:
jumbo shrimp
Customer service
Or government assistance

Heads up will not be cheap. No matter what rules and regulations you implement. That only makes it more expensive. The "cheapest" heads up would probably be a sealed crate engine class but still won't be cheap.

It's always the same story. New class, new people, lots of interest at first, early adopters tend to be dominant, money spent to gain an edge, new comers aren't as competitive, politics, whining, participation drops, people complain more, Customers/racers/spectators/sponsors lose interest(due to money, new or lack of technolgy) develop new class, old class dies. It's a viscous circle.
I keep hearing about the "good ole days" to me it is the "good ole days" in the here and now. Some peoples calanders must still read 1970s in there house. Things evolve or they die. Classes come and go, it's the normal ebb and flow of life. It's creative destruction when we lose one and gain another.

If there is a lot of interest in bringing back the class by all means bring it back or something similar. I think that's great. Personally, if the goal is to get young guys(20-30s) to come race, this is not it. It won't be cheap and it does not relate to anything they own. Most drag racers start out in their street cars that they drive everyday to work because when you're young and just starting out you can't afford multiple cars and expensive toys(well unless you use debt but that means you won't as much disposable income to go race every month that requires travel)

You want a younger generation to come race?
Step 1:Teach them finiacial responsibility
Step 2: Expose them to the sport in general.
Step 3: Let them design a class that appeals to them. Wether that is Evoulution of an exsisting class or creation of a new one. "Let the dog wag the tail, not the tail wag the dog"

Just my 10 cents the 2 cents was free.