Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

For your inquiry, here is what I found:


302-290 Z28 315 rating
427-425hp L72 435 rating
427-420hp L88/ZL1 480 rating
302-290hp Boss 330 rating
340-275hp MoPar 310 rating
426-425hp Street Hemi 480 rating
455-370hp Olds W30 380 rating
350-255hp 1969 Chevrolet 265 rating
400-370 1969 Pontiac RAIV 380 rating


Your '62 Pontiac 421-405hp combination was listed with and without the lightweight components, which we do not have in the current Class Guide. In 1969, C/S was an 8.50 break; in 1970, C/S was an 8.00 break. The lightweight component car would have made C/S easily @ 8.57 factor.


Odd items:
1) I cannot find a listing for the '68 Dart SS Hemi car.
2) The ZL1 '69 Corvette is in the guide
3) The LS7 '70 Corvette is in the guide

Dwight,
I am still working away, up to 1967-70 now and struggling with all those 400 Pontiacs. Wondering if you have time to look up some factors circa those years.
I'm assuming from the above that all the 400ra4, Firebird and Tempest, were factored to 380hp. I am using that 380hp also for the 1968-1/2 Ra2 cars since that "fits" the cars that ran and the engines were so similar.

It seems from 1967-70, Pontiac had a zillion 400's. The stick and auto cars had different cams but the same rated HP. The Tempest and Firebird had the same engines (well at least when they were uncorked for NHRA with open headers & throttles) but the Firebirds were all rated lower.

IN GENERAL, did NHRA up-rate all the Firebirds to their equal Tempest-engine ratings? (It seems the current guides do this but I wonder if they did that right away back in 1967-70 ?)

eg 1967:
Was the "325hp" Firebird RA1 up-rated to the "360hp" Tempest RA1 rating? (which I assume was left as-is at 360)? Were both the stick and auto cam engines left with the same rating?

1968:
So, was the "335hp" Firebird RA1 up-rated to the "360hp" Tempest RA1 rating (which I assume was left as-is at 360)? Were both the stick and auto cam engines left with the same rating?

1968-70
Was the base "330hp" Firebird up-rated to the base "350hp" Tempest rating?

Oddly, today's NHRA rates the 1968 Firebird base "330hp" at 338hp auto, 325hp stick, even though the auto engine had the smaller "066" cam.

1969:
Was the "335hp" Firebird RA3 up-rated to the "366hp" Tempest RA3 rating?

1970:
Was the "345hp" Firebird RA3 up-rated to the "366hp" Tempest RA3 rating?

It seems like, unless the Firebirds were "uprated" to the Tempest ratings, why would anybody ever race a Tempest when the Firebirds has this built-in advantage?

Sorry to be such a bother, trying to make the history as accurate as I can as I try to "Gonkulate" all these cars.

[g moore]

i have a copy of the record page from nat dragster from 1968--1972 if you want a pic. let me know-gary

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by g moore

i have a copy of the record page from nat dragster from 1968--1972 if you want a pic. let me know-gary

Gary,
Yes that would help thanks!
It takes quite a bit of et/mph data to figure out what was going on back then, because some of the runs were "brake light" runs so you cant trust the MPH at all and even the ET was sandbagging. More data helps. I wish I had all those old sheets but I was barely a teenager then.

[Ed Wright]

I should have added above, I went to Indy with Carroll Caudle to help him one year when I didn't have the money to take mine. He picked me up on his way through Tulsa. The Ronca brothers had their '56 there, that thing was a rocket. Mine would never run with that car. I got to thinking I made it sound like I thought the race tracks there were fast (they are), and their car was not. Those guys were bad fast. Sorry if I came across like they weren't. I should give more thought to what I post. Sorry.

[Rich Biebel]

Atco is fast as are most of the northeast tracks in cool weather....

Fastest we ever ran MPH wise in 1970 with our H/S Chevy II was 114++ MPH at York at the spring WCS race......12.20's but did not get the record that day....and we were trying......Just ran out of time and were not given a backup.....

Points were awarded for either ET or MPH and some people tried setting just the MPH end successfully.

One technique was to try and cover as much ground as possible by driving from one side to the other and back staying within the lane....

No a very good idea in a fast car on 7" tires though since they were squirrely at the top end sometimes.......low air, narrow rims....

Even a 12 second car at 110+ could get pretty loose feeling on those tires and rims at the finishline........I did not like it when I drove our car.....

[Ed Wright]

I used 4" wide wheels on my 7" Firestones. Don't remember how much air. Not much. Had to get used to the feel down near the finish line. Back then, many guys didn't travel as much as now. And, we didn't have the weather stations. I finally did get an Air Density gauge. I was lucky I raced in a slow area. I set the record where I could run the allowed tenth under anywhere around here, except Amarillo (3900'), so if I went out of division I was still in good shape.
The NHRA World Finals were in Dallas a while, then here in Tulsa for a while. We had to qualify, off the record, so we saw a lot of Div 1 & Div 7 cars, with National Record Holder painted on the fenders fail to make the show, could not even run their own records. Many set at Atco, NJ and Fremont, CA. First time I heard the term "mineshaft" used to duscribe a race track was Sonny Bryant telling me about Fremont.

[Dwight Southerland]

eg 1967:
Was the "325hp" Firebird RA1 up-rated to the "360hp" Tempest RA1 rating? (which I assume was left as-is at 360)? Were both the stick and auto cam engines left with the same rating? Yes.

1968:
So, was the "335hp" Firebird RA1 up-rated to the "360hp" Tempest RA1 rating (which I assume was left as-is at 360)? Were both the stick and auto cam engines left with the same rating? Yes and yes.

1968-70
Was the base "330hp" Firebird up-rated to the base "350hp" Tempest rating? No. 1968 Firebird was left at 330. 1969 and 1970 Firebirds were 350.

1969:
Was the "335hp" Firebird RA3 up-rated to the "366hp" Tempest RA3 rating? Yes.

1970:
Was the "345hp" Firebird RA3 up-rated to the "366hp" Tempest RA3 rating? 345hp Firebird and the 366hp Tempest were both at 366. The 370hp RA IV engines in 1969 and 1970 were at 380.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

eg 1967:
Was the "325hp" Firebird RA1 up-rated to the "360hp" Tempest RA1 rating? (which I assume was left as-is at 360)? Were both the stick and auto cam engines left with the same rating? Yes.

1968:
So, was the "335hp" Firebird RA1 up-rated to the "360hp" Tempest RA1 rating (which I assume was left as-is at 360)? Were both the stick and auto cam engines left with the same rating? Yes and yes.

1968-70
Was the base "330hp" Firebird up-rated to the base "350hp" Tempest rating? No. 1968 Firebird was left at 330. 1969 and 1970 Firebirds were 350.

1969:
Was the "335hp" Firebird RA3 up-rated to the "366hp" Tempest RA3 rating? Yes.

1970:
Was the "345hp" Firebird RA3 up-rated to the "366hp" Tempest RA3 rating? 345hp Firebird and the 366hp Tempest were both at 366. The 370hp RA IV engines in 1969 and 1970 were at 380.

Thanks Dwight that is a great help in lining things up. At least with Pontiac you don't have to worry so much about a Ram Air factor, its either a Ram Air car or its not.


I'm not sure how (or if) NHRA handled cold air in general back then - we covered where NHRA factored the flat-hood 428CJ at 340hp, but factored the cold-air 428CJ at 360hp.


But I cant find any other examples were NHRA factored a cold-air car different than a flat-hood or "warm-air" car, does that sound right?




Well now I am thinking about those doggone Street Hemi's again.
Were they ALL factored to 480hp or just the ones with cold air, which would be all the 69-70 Hemis, some of the 71 Hemis, and a few of the 67 Hemis, the RO23 glass hood cars?


Could the rest of the warm-air Hemis been factored at say 465hp or were they all 480hp?