Lencos in SS - Page 4

X-TECH MAN · 11-02-2009, 05:35 AM

[QUOTE=Tony DePillo; either be prepared to shell out six to eight thousand for the gearboxes or get left in the dust by those in your class [/QUOTE]

Have you priced a "PRO TRANS" lately ! Thats an automatic for those of you who are out of the loop.

Tony DePillo · 11-02-2009, 06:34 AM

I wonder how much outrage their would be if Tech made legal a ZF 5 speed auto in any Automatic class.Same issue, do you spend $7500.00, or become a also ran?
That's what we're talking about here, making all of the equipment out there obsolete with the stroke of a pen for no apparent reason. Let them have it in AH, it's all the same combination. the the rest of us the hell alone.
There are still Sportsman racers out there who have worked hard to get to the top of their game, at great personal sacrifice. To pull a stunt like this is unbelievable. If you need to police clutchless, I can show you at least three methods that don't involve rocking the car and none of them involve as much as a dirty hand on the part of tech. All can be done with the current tech staff.

buzzinhalfdozen · 11-02-2009, 07:48 AM

Tony, I feel your pain I've got a G-Force Clutch assisted on the shelf for my AX car.That's nearly $7000 for a trans. that may not be competitive anymore. And yes I've watched my Gmeter with both trans in the car, actually the accel rate would go higher with the clutch assisted mainly due to being in nuetral for a millisecond. The main difference is my clutchless went many- many runs with no issues, my clutch assisted required repair after 30-50 runs. I'm not advocating for or against the change as my current car has a "grannie" tranny. It's just always been an issue that what we have now is going to be obsolete next year, tricker-faster parts are always comoing down the pike. The question is do we spend the money? Like so many things in racing we rarely get a voice in the decision making, they make the rules and we try to race within them. Joe

Tony DePillo · 11-02-2009, 07:55 AM

Joe, maybe I need a clutchless so I could beat you for once!
I have enough trouble buying diesel, $20.00 per gallon fuel, hotel rooms, entry fee's, valve springs, $10.00 per quart oil. Those are slow small bleeds. $15,000.00 transmissions, that ain't going to happen.
My first GF4A got over 75 runs on it. I dont think anyones clutchless will do any better. 75 runs for me over two years of service.
I just want to know who lit the fuse on this can of S@$t and why.

Alex Denysenko · 11-02-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony DePillo

I just want to know who lit the fuse on this can of S@$t and why.

Probably some of the same group that decided PG cars needed 3 speeds in SS.

buzzinhalfdozen · 11-02-2009, 08:50 AM

The question of who lit the fuse that's easy, look around at the giant stackers and toter homes. It's my opinion that 90% of the rule changes are desired by 10% of the racers. Just look around at all the new Cobalts and G5's. If these people can go out and buy a new car at $85,000-$100,000 per do you think a clutchless is an issue for them? Me I can't swing it if I couldn't build my own car and engine I'd be gone I like most of you have to work for a living. However I still like to have fast stuff, I have to decide where best to spend my money to accomplish that. Tony, you had me dead to rights the last time we raced, no one was more suprised to see I'd won than me. I told you the first time we raced I have alot of respect for anyone out there rowing the gears. After 25 years of stick racing this was my first car to have a fluid drive, I've got to say it's not nearly as much fun as yanking a lever. Joe

Michael Lyons · 11-02-2009, 11:24 AM

and for the record, the weight break is 5% not 250 lbs. More like 150 at 3000 calculated weight. I definitely agree with those who don't like this rule because it only helps out the wealthier racers. I still run a PG in my junk because its alot more reliable and consistent and inexpensive or it was anyways and because I already owned a bunch of PG parts back when I had to buy a S/S car because they killed my class(anybody wanna buy an ole chassis craft car, cheap?). Heck I run a PG in my wannabe Comp car.. lol

Course I've determined that it basically does you no good to come on these forums and speak your mind, especially about costs. It seems the one santioning body only goes the more expensive route seemingly intentionally just to stick it to the ones that complain then.. pretty much sucks anymore

Dick Butler · 11-02-2009, 12:13 PM

Is it the dedicated Sponser who gets the benefit of this type rule, the "close friend" of the tech department who gets someones "ear" to even consider it?the performance advantages? Obviously they have NEVER cared about the $ cost for the parts but sometimes the reliability...has its points in the decisions...

Rory McNeil · 11-02-2009, 01:24 PM

Mr. DePillo, you stated that the clutchless transmission acceptance is a "done deal" for 2010, where did you you hear or read this information? Also, if this is indeed true, does anybody know if G Force or Jerico could retrofit our current transmissions to the clutchless configuration? I just checked out both Jerico`s and G Forces websites, on a new transmission, a clutchless Jerico is $650. more than a clutch assist DR4. A G Force clutchless 5 speed is $400. more than a clutch assist version, I couldn`t find a clutchless 4 speed listed on the G Force site, do they make one? I have 2 clutch assist Jerico DR4`s, and personally, have been very pleased with their reliabiliy, the only parts that I have ever broke were the 2 gears for 3rd gear ,once, in 9 seasons in my 10.0@132 bracket car. The trans in my Stocker has never been hurt. Granted my cars are both slower than many S/S cars, or some of the higher class Stockers. On a faster car, can anybody say for certain that the clutchless trans would be more durable than a clutch assist unit? Also, would a clutchless trans be any quicker than a clutch assist trans that happened to be shifted without the clutch? Personally, I wouldn`t want to have to buy any new transmission (s), but if my old ones could be upgraded for a reasonable cost, I may be interested in that option, assuming this ruling is indeed, a certainty

Jeff Colvert · 11-02-2009, 02:10 PM

How would a clutchless trany work in a race situation where you may be on and off the gas. My understanding of how a clutchless trany works is that when you get off the gas it is it pops out of gear, am I wrong on this.

Jeff Colvert SS/G 4456

11-02-2009, 05:35 AM	#31
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS [QUOTE=Tony DePillo; either be prepared to shell out six to eight thousand for the gearboxes or get left in the dust by those in your class [/QUOTE] Have you priced a "PRO TRANS" lately ! Thats an automatic for those of you who are out of the loop.

11-02-2009, 06:34 AM	#32
Tony DePillo Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dayton Ohio Posts: 41 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS I wonder how much outrage their would be if Tech made legal a ZF 5 speed auto in any Automatic class.Same issue, do you spend $7500.00, or become a also ran? That's what we're talking about here, making all of the equipment out there obsolete with the stroke of a pen for no apparent reason. Let them have it in AH, it's all the same combination. the the rest of us the hell alone. There are still Sportsman racers out there who have worked hard to get to the top of their game, at great personal sacrifice. To pull a stunt like this is unbelievable. If you need to police clutchless, I can show you at least three methods that don't involve rocking the car and none of them involve as much as a dirty hand on the part of tech. All can be done with the current tech staff.

11-02-2009, 07:48 AM	#33
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS Tony, I feel your pain I've got a G-Force Clutch assisted on the shelf for my AX car.That's nearly $7000 for a trans. that may not be competitive anymore. And yes I've watched my Gmeter with both trans in the car, actually the accel rate would go higher with the clutch assisted mainly due to being in nuetral for a millisecond. The main difference is my clutchless went many- many runs with no issues, my clutch assisted required repair after 30-50 runs. I'm not advocating for or against the change as my current car has a "grannie" tranny. It's just always been an issue that what we have now is going to be obsolete next year, tricker-faster parts are always comoing down the pike. The question is do we spend the money? Like so many things in racing we rarely get a voice in the decision making, they make the rules and we try to race within them. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

11-02-2009, 07:55 AM	#34
Tony DePillo Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dayton Ohio Posts: 41 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS Joe, maybe I need a clutchless so I could beat you for once! I have enough trouble buying diesel, $20.00 per gallon fuel, hotel rooms, entry fee's, valve springs, $10.00 per quart oil. Those are slow small bleeds. $15,000.00 transmissions, that ain't going to happen. My first GF4A got over 75 runs on it. I dont think anyones clutchless will do any better. 75 runs for me over two years of service. I just want to know who lit the fuse on this can of S@$t and why.

11-02-2009, 08:50 AM	#36
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS The question of who lit the fuse that's easy, look around at the giant stackers and toter homes. It's my opinion that 90% of the rule changes are desired by 10% of the racers. Just look around at all the new Cobalts and G5's. If these people can go out and buy a new car at $85,000-$100,000 per do you think a clutchless is an issue for them? Me I can't swing it if I couldn't build my own car and engine I'd be gone I like most of you have to work for a living. However I still like to have fast stuff, I have to decide where best to spend my money to accomplish that. Tony, you had me dead to rights the last time we raced, no one was more suprised to see I'd won than me. I told you the first time we raced I have alot of respect for anyone out there rowing the gears. After 25 years of stick racing this was my first car to have a fluid drive, I've got to say it's not nearly as much fun as yanking a lever. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

11-02-2009, 11:24 AM	#37
Michael Lyons Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Garden City, MI Posts: 226 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS and for the record, the weight break is 5% not 250 lbs. More like 150 at 3000 calculated weight. I definitely agree with those who don't like this rule because it only helps out the wealthier racers. I still run a PG in my junk because its alot more reliable and consistent and inexpensive or it was anyways and because I already owned a bunch of PG parts back when I had to buy a S/S car because they killed my class(anybody wanna buy an ole chassis craft car, cheap?). Heck I run a PG in my wannabe Comp car.. lol Course I've determined that it basically does you no good to come on these forums and speak your mind, especially about costs. It seems the one santioning body only goes the more expensive route seemingly intentionally just to stick it to the ones that complain then.. pretty much sucks anymore

11-02-2009, 12:13 PM	#38
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS Is it the dedicated Sponser who gets the benefit of this type rule, the "close friend" of the tech department who gets someones "ear" to even consider it?the performance advantages? Obviously they have NEVER cared about the $ cost for the parts but sometimes the reliability...has its points in the decisions...

11-02-2009, 01:24 PM	#39
Rory McNeil VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: from Vancouver BC Canada, now in Nova Scotia Posts: 1,311 Likes: 315 Liked 1,103 Times in 301 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS Mr. DePillo, you stated that the clutchless transmission acceptance is a "done deal" for 2010, where did you you hear or read this information? Also, if this is indeed true, does anybody know if G Force or Jerico could retrofit our current transmissions to the clutchless configuration? I just checked out both Jerico`s and G Forces websites, on a new transmission, a clutchless Jerico is $650. more than a clutch assist DR4. A G Force clutchless 5 speed is $400. more than a clutch assist version, I couldn`t find a clutchless 4 speed listed on the G Force site, do they make one? I have 2 clutch assist Jerico DR4`s, and personally, have been very pleased with their reliabiliy, the only parts that I have ever broke were the 2 gears for 3rd gear ,once, in 9 seasons in my 10.0@132 bracket car. The trans in my Stocker has never been hurt. Granted my cars are both slower than many S/S cars, or some of the higher class Stockers. On a faster car, can anybody say for certain that the clutchless trans would be more durable than a clutch assist unit? Also, would a clutchless trans be any quicker than a clutch assist trans that happened to be shifted without the clutch? Personally, I wouldn`t want to have to buy any new transmission (s), but if my old ones could be upgraded for a reasonable cost, I may be interested in that option, assuming this ruling is indeed, a certainty __________________ NHRA 6390 STK M/S 85 Mustang

11-02-2009, 02:10 PM	#40
Jeff Colvert Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkadelphia, AR Posts: 289 Likes: 8 Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Lencos in SS How would a clutchless trany work in a race situation where you may be on and off the gas. My understanding of how a clutchless trany works is that when you get off the gas it is it pops out of gear, am I wrong on this. Jeff Colvert SS/G 4456

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