How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II

Fred Elsass · 10-02-2020, 12:06 PM

Here we go.

Stock there were no number 1 winner in the finals. The winners were one number 5, one number 7, two at 8 and one 10. Total 4.

Stock runner-up there was one 9.

Super Stock there were no number winner in the finals. There was one 3, one 4, one 5, one 6, and two at 7.Super Stock runner-up. Total 6

There was one 1, one 2, three at 3, two at 5 and one at 9. Total 8.

What do you all think this means. I think it means that if you can run the index it is a bracket race. I also think that ego has a lot to do with where you qualify and nothing more. If the number one car lines up with one that can just run the index how fast you can go means nothing.

Stan Weiss · 10-02-2020, 01:48 PM

Years ago I did some drag simulations for some one running a 10.90 class. He wanted to know how much more HP he need to run 10.90 at xxx MPH verses the yyy MPH he was running. It seem that it was a better deal to run slower earlier and run faster later. Because he ran a throttle stop I don't know how well this translates to stock or super stock.

Stan

Bill Ringer · 10-02-2020, 03:54 PM

Not a bracket race, sure there are lots of parallels but the strategies can play into this as well. For qualifying 1,2 or 3 you may be getting a bye at some point but this can be taken further. Qualifying in the middle of the field can give you a shot at a top qualifier and taking their position for a possible bye. Alternately you might get one of the last qualifiers. In my day there were always a few who had difficulty running the index and usually those were easier wins. There are many scenarios for strategy- if you are in a position to improve your qualifying position for the last session and that puts you in a spot on the ladder where it's likely you will be paired up with someone you really don't want first round- you can choose whether you really want to improve or not.
Qualifying positions are one of the ways our classes are unique and different from ET racing. If you are a top qualifier, you have earned the respect of the other racers and maybe a bye from your hard work to be a top qualifier. Similarly if you can take out a top qualifier you have earned it that way too. Many times a bye run is viewed as a 'freebie' and it was nothing of the sort, we can earn that bye run. Few others can do that. Racing with no qualifying positions- the bye run is a freebie 100% of the time. Sure, there may be times when it's unimportant but qualifying positions are important more times than many would think.
Plus... many outsiders are just not up to the challenge to get something like an F/SA car that has no compression, tiny cam, OEM carb & manifold and get it to run 10.80's to be competitive in Class Eliminations and competitive for the heads up runs during final eliminations. Those that view S&SS class racing as just a bracket race need to be better informed as to all the complexities that make Class Racing the type of racing it is.

mnmaxwedge · 10-02-2020, 06:55 PM

you are ignoring the situation where a superior driver is eliminated in earlier rounds in a heads up race and not able to get to the final

Bill Ringer · 10-02-2020, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnmaxwedge

you are ignoring the situation where a superior driver is eliminated in earlier rounds in a heads up race and not able to get to the final

Yes, good one- that too!

Larry Hill · 10-04-2020, 08:38 AM

I remember not qualifying with the CUDA and it was long drive home. I hated that feeling.

oldskool · 10-04-2020, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnmaxwedge

you are ignoring the situation where a superior driver is eliminated in earlier rounds in a heads up race and not able to get to the final

I've noticed that, as just a casual observer.

I suppose there are quite a few guys who are not great drivers, therefore high qualifying positions, class wins, & heads-up wins are their goals.

These guys usually don't cut consistently good lights, therefore don't usually win many rounds. These are also some of the guys who say that if the heads-up runs are eliminated, they'll quit racing. I can understand that. For those guys, that would remove a big part of why they race.

I've also noticed that lots of guys are switching to one of the fast FS cars, so they'll have the advantages of the slower car having the 1st chance to red light, and being the chase car, which gives the advantage of seeing the slow car all the way down the track. Don't have to look in the mirror and try to see where the faster car is, when approaching the finish line. Most agree that the faster car has the advantage. Even if a 9 sec car can barely run it's index, it still has advantages over slower cars.

Andys dad · 10-04-2020, 10:45 AM

A lot of consistent winners qualify on the fold -- or very near. +or- one.

They do not show their power/speed very often.

IMHO

Ron

Jack McCarthy · 10-05-2020, 01:53 PM

one must remember top qualifiers have huge advantage in heads ups ... especially in the "populated" classes !!!!

captain .... cant get a heads up

KennyAnderson · 10-05-2020, 03:15 PM

On the flip side of the first chance to redlight, unless the track has REALLY good blinders (many do not) I prefer looking at the clean side of a dirty tree any time.

10-02-2020, 12:06 PM	#1
Fred Elsass Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 127 Likes: 1 Liked 292 Times in 41 Posts	How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II Here we go. Stock there were no number 1 winner in the finals. The winners were one number 5, one number 7, two at 8 and one 10. Total 4. Stock runner-up there was one 9. Super Stock there were no number winner in the finals. There was one 3, one 4, one 5, one 6, and two at 7.Super Stock runner-up. Total 6 There was one 1, one 2, three at 3, two at 5 and one at 9. Total 8. What do you all think this means. I think it means that if you can run the index it is a bracket race. I also think that ego has a lot to do with where you qualify and nothing more. If the number one car lines up with one that can just run the index how fast you can go means nothing.

10-02-2020, 01:48 PM	#2
Stan Weiss Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Phila, PA Posts: 793 Likes: 0 Liked 733 Times in 384 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II Years ago I did some drag simulations for some one running a 10.90 class. He wanted to know how much more HP he need to run 10.90 at xxx MPH verses the yyy MPH he was running. It seem that it was a better deal to run slower earlier and run faster later. Because he ran a throttle stop I don't know how well this translates to stock or super stock. Stan

10-02-2020, 03:54 PM	#3
Bill Ringer Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 107 Likes: 34 Liked 141 Times in 25 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II Not a bracket race, sure there are lots of parallels but the strategies can play into this as well. For qualifying 1,2 or 3 you may be getting a bye at some point but this can be taken further. Qualifying in the middle of the field can give you a shot at a top qualifier and taking their position for a possible bye. Alternately you might get one of the last qualifiers. In my day there were always a few who had difficulty running the index and usually those were easier wins. There are many scenarios for strategy- if you are in a position to improve your qualifying position for the last session and that puts you in a spot on the ladder where it's likely you will be paired up with someone you really don't want first round- you can choose whether you really want to improve or not. Qualifying positions are one of the ways our classes are unique and different from ET racing. If you are a top qualifier, you have earned the respect of the other racers and maybe a bye from your hard work to be a top qualifier. Similarly if you can take out a top qualifier you have earned it that way too. Many times a bye run is viewed as a 'freebie' and it was nothing of the sort, we can earn that bye run. Few others can do that. Racing with no qualifying positions- the bye run is a freebie 100% of the time. Sure, there may be times when it's unimportant but qualifying positions are important more times than many would think. Plus... many outsiders are just not up to the challenge to get something like an F/SA car that has no compression, tiny cam, OEM carb & manifold and get it to run 10.80's to be competitive in Class Eliminations and competitive for the heads up runs during final eliminations. Those that view S&SS class racing as just a bracket race need to be better informed as to all the complexities that make Class Racing the type of racing it is.

10-02-2020, 06:55 PM	#4
mnmaxwedge Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 97 Likes: 56 Liked 172 Times in 53 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II you are ignoring the situation where a superior driver is eliminated in earlier rounds in a heads up race and not able to get to the final

10-04-2020, 08:38 AM	#6
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,629 Likes: 1,922 Liked 10,681 Times in 2,222 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II I remember not qualifying with the CUDA and it was long drive home. I hated that feeling. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

10-04-2020, 10:45 AM	#8
Andys dad VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arcadia, Ca Posts: 1,571 Likes: 48 Liked 175 Times in 78 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II A lot of consistent winners qualify on the fold -- or very near. +or- one. They do not show their power/speed very often. IMHO Ron __________________ time is our most precious resource, you can always make more money but you can never make more time spend your time wisely with the ones you love - Ron Durham

10-05-2020, 01:53 PM	#9
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,318 Likes: 28 Liked 459 Times in 113 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II one must remember top qualifiers have huge advantage in heads ups ... especially in the "populated" classes !!!! captain .... cant get a heads up __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

10-05-2020, 03:15 PM	#10
KennyAnderson Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 289 Likes: 38 Liked 354 Times in 118 Posts	Re: How important is qualifying in Stock and Super Stock II On the flip side of the first chance to redlight, unless the track has REALLY good blinders (many do not) I prefer looking at the clean side of a dirty tree any time.