Bred Penn Oil or VR1

et7333 · 09-29-2007, 11:03 AM

which oil would you use in your flat tappet motor:Brad Penn 10-30 semi or 10-30 VR1{VV205} or valvoline conventional,not for street use,{VV850} 10-30 and why?I've noticed the ZDDP is Lower on the BP then the Valvoline

Oldtimer · 09-29-2007, 05:50 PM

You want the oil with the most Zinc content, we us Rotella Truck oil 30 or 40 wt to break in all motors and most of all flat tapet cams. Its the Zinc not the brand of oil.

7820 · 09-29-2007, 07:40 PM

Rotella along with Chevron Delo has reduced the amount of lead contend with the reformulation this year. We switched from VR-1 which also reduced the lead content to Brad Penn and like what we are seeing. We have gone from changing oil after every event to four events and then we look at the filter before we change the oil.

NovaMan · 10-03-2007, 03:17 AM

As far as VV205 vs. VV850, they both have the same zinc content. VR1 has enough detergent for street/strip applications, but "Racing Conventional" NSL (VV850) is for race-only use.
As you may know, Brad Penn is the old green Kendall GT1, which is still one of the highest zinc motor oils available, AFAIK.
7820 is right about diesel engine oils like Rotella and Delo cutting down on the zinc; I don't know why some cam companies are still recommending them. But I haven't read or heard anything about Valvoline reducing the zinc content in their racing oils. If that is the case, they haven't updated their website or their MSDSs, and they haven't told their phone techs either.

Johnny · 10-03-2007, 01:13 PM

Check out Valvolines VV851 (conventional) or VV855 (synthetic) both contain additional zinc. A little more pricey but the peace of mind is well worth it.

Wade_Owens · 10-03-2007, 05:06 PM

Guys, just a heads up on the Rotella, if you have a larger warehouse in the area, they may still have some of the oil with the higher zinc. Look for the label that is solid, light blue in color. All newer cases/bottles have the "rainbow" type label. We located several cases that had not been rotated out and latched onto them. Just an FYI......

Wade O

et7333 · 10-04-2007, 08:58 AM

.

Directly from the Hot Rod article, June 2006, When Good Cams Go Bad:

SH API oil rating 1996
zinc = 0.130%, 1130ppm (parts per million)
phosphorous = 0.120%, 1120ppm

SJ API oil rating 2001
and
SL API oil rating 2004
zinc = 0.110%, 1100ppm
phosphorous = 0.100%, 1000ppm

SM API oil rating 2005
zinc = 0.087%, 870ppm
phosphorous = 0.080%, 800ppm

SM API oil rating 2007
zinc = 0.060%, 600ppm
phosphorous = 0.080%, 800ppm

Cosworth Racing Oil
zinc = 0.125%, 1250ppm
phosphorous = 0.115%, 1150ppm

Shell Rotella T CI-4
zinc = 0.140%, 1400ppm
phosphorous = 0.130%, 1300ppm

Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Oil
zinc = 0.196%, 1960ppm
phosphorous = 0.180%, 1800ppm

Quaker State Q Racing Synthetic
zinc = 0.200%, 2000ppm
phosphorous = 0.180%, 1800ppm
Obviously, the 4 oils above do not have an API rating for newer engines. Their rating would be SH or SG. Pennzoil Racing is SG. Rotella is SH/SJ.
From the Kendall website for GT-1, which I've used since 1964 and now can no longer use for fear of cam and lifter damage:

additional spec. for oils of interest:

Kendal GT-1 green 40W, old mfg.
zinc = 0.200%, 2000ppm
phosphorous = 0.200%, 2000ppm

Kendall GT-1 amber 40W. Older green GT-1 used in Thunder and still have 5 quarts of the green oil left. New GT-1 color is amber. Green GT-1 has high zinc and phosphorous content. Amber GT-1 has low content.
zinc = 0.104%, 1040ppm

Kendal GT-1 amber 30W. Older green GT-1 was used in the other Olds engines.
zinc = 0.104%, 1040ppm

Kendal GT-1 amber 20W-50
zinc = 0.113%, 1130ppm

Kendal GT-1 amber 10W-40
zinc = 0.086%, 860ppm

Also:
Chevron Delo 400 10w-30
zinc = 0.140%, 1400ppm
phosphorous = 0.126%, 1260ppm

Chevron Delo 400 10W and 20
zinc = 0.127%, 1270ppm
phosphorous = 0.114%, 1140ppm

Chevron Delo 400 30, 40, and 50
zinc = 0.127%, 1270ppm
phosphorous = 0.116%, 1160ppm

Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic 0W-30
zinc = 0.130%, 1300ppm
phosphorous = 0.114%, 1140ppm

Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic 5W-40
zinc = 0.151%, 1510ppm
phosphorous = 0.136%, 1360ppm

Valvoline VR1 20W-50 Racing oil
zinc = 0.130%, 1300ppm
phosphorous = 0.120%, 1200ppm
sulfated ash = 1%
calcium = 0.250%, 2500ppm
NOACK % off @ 250C = <15% (This rating tells how much oil will be lost as vapor at high operating temperatures. 15% is the break point. 10% is very good. 5% is fantastic.

Valvoline Not Street Legal Synthetic Racing Oil
zinc = 0.120%, 1200ppm
phosphorous = 0.120%, 1200ppm

Valvoline Not Street Legal Conventional Racing Oil
zinc = 0.120%, 1200ppm
phpsphorous = 0.120%, 1200ppm

Royal Purple Synthetic Racing 21 Oil 5W-30
zinc = 0.1961%, 1961ppm
phosphorous = 0.1130%, 1130ppm
calcium = 0.2994%, 2944ppm

Royal Purple Racing 41 Oil 10-40w synthetic
zinc = 0.1901%, 1901ppm
phosphorous = 0.1171%, 1171ppm
calcium = 0.2843%, 2843ppm

Royal Purple 15-40 w Synthetic
zinc = 0.1213%, 1213ppm
phosphorous = 0.1126%, 1126ppm
calcium = 0.2961%, 2961ppm

Harley Davidson 20W-50 Synthetic
zinc = 0.1068%, 1068ppm
phosphorous = 0.997%, 997ppm
calcium = 0.1342%, 1342ppm

STP oil treatment
zinc = 0.1959%, 1959ppm
phosphorous = 0.1814%, 1814ppm
calcium = 0.1371%, 1371ppm

Redline Synthetic 10W-40
zinc = 0.1350%, 1350ppm
phosphorous = 0.1371%, 1371ppm
calcium = 0.2782%, 2782ppm

Redline Synthetic 10W-30
zinc = 0.1407%, 1407ppm
phosphorous = 0.1340%, 1340ppm
calcium = 0.2869%, 2869ppm

Redline Synthetic 5W-30
zinc = 0.1421%, 1421ppm
phosphorous = 0.1419%, 1419ppm
calcium = 0.2917%, 2917ppm

Mobil 1 Synthetic
zinc = 0.1376%, 1376ppm
phosphorous = 0.1223%, 1223ppm
calcium = 0.2937%, 2937ppm

7820 · 10-04-2007, 09:14 AM

This report was written before the re-formulation and is not applicable for what is being sold today.

09-29-2007, 11:03 AM	#1
et7333 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 155 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Bred Penn Oil or VR1 which oil would you use in your flat tappet motor:Brad Penn 10-30 semi or 10-30 VR1{VV205} or valvoline conventional,not for street use,{VV850} 10-30 and why?I've noticed the ZDDP is Lower on the BP then the Valvoline

09-29-2007, 05:50 PM	#2
Oldtimer Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arkansas Posts: 87 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 You want the oil with the most Zinc content, we us Rotella Truck oil 30 or 40 wt to break in all motors and most of all flat tapet cams. Its the Zinc not the brand of oil. __________________ Bob Pagano L88BOB@aol.com www.dyainc.org 4033 AA/SA

09-29-2007, 07:40 PM	#3
7820 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 201 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 Rotella along with Chevron Delo has reduced the amount of lead contend with the reformulation this year. We switched from VR-1 which also reduced the lead content to Brad Penn and like what we are seeing. We have gone from changing oil after every event to four events and then we look at the filter before we change the oil.

10-03-2007, 03:17 AM	#4
NovaMan Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 117 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 As far as VV205 vs. VV850, they both have the same zinc content. VR1 has enough detergent for street/strip applications, but "Racing Conventional" NSL (VV850) is for race-only use. As you may know, Brad Penn is the old green Kendall GT1, which is still one of the highest zinc motor oils available, AFAIK. 7820 is right about diesel engine oils like Rotella and Delo cutting down on the zinc; I don't know why some cam companies are still recommending them. But I haven't read or heard anything about Valvoline reducing the zinc content in their racing oils. If that is the case, they haven't updated their website or their MSDSs, and they haven't told their phone techs either. __________________ ~Pete 1970 Nova

10-03-2007, 01:13 PM	#5
Johnny Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dirt Jersey Posts: 85 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 Check out Valvolines VV851 (conventional) or VV855 (synthetic) both contain additional zinc. A little more pricey but the peace of mind is well worth it.

10-03-2007, 05:06 PM	#6
Wade_Owens Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 578 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 1 Post	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 Guys, just a heads up on the Rotella, if you have a larger warehouse in the area, they may still have some of the oil with the higher zinc. Look for the label that is solid, light blue in color. All newer cases/bottles have the "rainbow" type label. We located several cases that had not been rotated out and latched onto them. Just an FYI...... Wade O

10-04-2007, 08:58 AM	#7
et7333 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 155 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 . Directly from the Hot Rod article, June 2006, When Good Cams Go Bad: SH API oil rating 1996 zinc = 0.130%, 1130ppm (parts per million) phosphorous = 0.120%, 1120ppm SJ API oil rating 2001 and SL API oil rating 2004 zinc = 0.110%, 1100ppm phosphorous = 0.100%, 1000ppm SM API oil rating 2005 zinc = 0.087%, 870ppm phosphorous = 0.080%, 800ppm SM API oil rating 2007 zinc = 0.060%, 600ppm phosphorous = 0.080%, 800ppm Cosworth Racing Oil zinc = 0.125%, 1250ppm phosphorous = 0.115%, 1150ppm Shell Rotella T CI-4 zinc = 0.140%, 1400ppm phosphorous = 0.130%, 1300ppm Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Oil zinc = 0.196%, 1960ppm phosphorous = 0.180%, 1800ppm Quaker State Q Racing Synthetic zinc = 0.200%, 2000ppm phosphorous = 0.180%, 1800ppm Obviously, the 4 oils above do not have an API rating for newer engines. Their rating would be SH or SG. Pennzoil Racing is SG. Rotella is SH/SJ. From the Kendall website for GT-1, which I've used since 1964 and now can no longer use for fear of cam and lifter damage: additional spec. for oils of interest: Kendal GT-1 green 40W, old mfg. zinc = 0.200%, 2000ppm phosphorous = 0.200%, 2000ppm Kendall GT-1 amber 40W. Older green GT-1 used in Thunder and still have 5 quarts of the green oil left. New GT-1 color is amber. Green GT-1 has high zinc and phosphorous content. Amber GT-1 has low content. zinc = 0.104%, 1040ppm Kendal GT-1 amber 30W. Older green GT-1 was used in the other Olds engines. zinc = 0.104%, 1040ppm Kendal GT-1 amber 20W-50 zinc = 0.113%, 1130ppm Kendal GT-1 amber 10W-40 zinc = 0.086%, 860ppm Also: Chevron Delo 400 10w-30 zinc = 0.140%, 1400ppm phosphorous = 0.126%, 1260ppm Chevron Delo 400 10W and 20 zinc = 0.127%, 1270ppm phosphorous = 0.114%, 1140ppm Chevron Delo 400 30, 40, and 50 zinc = 0.127%, 1270ppm phosphorous = 0.116%, 1160ppm Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic 0W-30 zinc = 0.130%, 1300ppm phosphorous = 0.114%, 1140ppm Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic 5W-40 zinc = 0.151%, 1510ppm phosphorous = 0.136%, 1360ppm Valvoline VR1 20W-50 Racing oil zinc = 0.130%, 1300ppm phosphorous = 0.120%, 1200ppm sulfated ash = 1% calcium = 0.250%, 2500ppm NOACK % off @ 250C = <15% (This rating tells how much oil will be lost as vapor at high operating temperatures. 15% is the break point. 10% is very good. 5% is fantastic. Valvoline Not Street Legal Synthetic Racing Oil zinc = 0.120%, 1200ppm phosphorous = 0.120%, 1200ppm Valvoline Not Street Legal Conventional Racing Oil zinc = 0.120%, 1200ppm phpsphorous = 0.120%, 1200ppm Royal Purple Synthetic Racing 21 Oil 5W-30 zinc = 0.1961%, 1961ppm phosphorous = 0.1130%, 1130ppm calcium = 0.2994%, 2944ppm Royal Purple Racing 41 Oil 10-40w synthetic zinc = 0.1901%, 1901ppm phosphorous = 0.1171%, 1171ppm calcium = 0.2843%, 2843ppm Royal Purple 15-40 w Synthetic zinc = 0.1213%, 1213ppm phosphorous = 0.1126%, 1126ppm calcium = 0.2961%, 2961ppm Harley Davidson 20W-50 Synthetic zinc = 0.1068%, 1068ppm phosphorous = 0.997%, 997ppm calcium = 0.1342%, 1342ppm STP oil treatment zinc = 0.1959%, 1959ppm phosphorous = 0.1814%, 1814ppm calcium = 0.1371%, 1371ppm Redline Synthetic 10W-40 zinc = 0.1350%, 1350ppm phosphorous = 0.1371%, 1371ppm calcium = 0.2782%, 2782ppm Redline Synthetic 10W-30 zinc = 0.1407%, 1407ppm phosphorous = 0.1340%, 1340ppm calcium = 0.2869%, 2869ppm Redline Synthetic 5W-30 zinc = 0.1421%, 1421ppm phosphorous = 0.1419%, 1419ppm calcium = 0.2917%, 2917ppm Mobil 1 Synthetic zinc = 0.1376%, 1376ppm phosphorous = 0.1223%, 1223ppm calcium = 0.2937%, 2937ppm

10-04-2007, 09:14 AM	#8
7820 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 201 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bred Penn Oil or VR1 This report was written before the re-formulation and is not applicable for what is being sold today.