God save us from the NHRA tech dept

RLR · 07-16-2007, 12:19 PM

One of the things that makes s/ss better than bracket racing is that the cars are stock appearing, especially Stock. SS/Mod cars aside, the cars have stock grills and bumpers, and don't have F1 scoops on fiberglass hoods.

Imagine my surprise to see a photo on Drag Race Central of a 1964 Plymouth A/SA car with a Hemi hood scoop, and a Max Wedge grill (4 headlights). It looks like a beautiful car, and I'm guessing the owner is a quality guy, BUT...

The 1964 aluminum front Max Wedge Plymouths are too light for NHRA A/SA (they run AA/SA in IHRA), so I don't think this is a light weight Wedge car. Also, the Wedge scoop is notched in the center instead of flat across like the Hemi scoops. The steel front Max Wedges (Plymouths & Dodges) did not come with scoops at all. Finally, the Hemi cars had special grills with only 2 headlights.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCPh...er=30#indextop

Even if this scoop is purely cosmetic (no holes above the carbs), this is just WRONG. Will I be able to run '68 doors on my '67 Camaro now? How 'bout a '69 Z/28 scoop on my '67 car ... just like all the bracket racers at my local track.

Am I missing something obvious? A rule change? An odd-ball combination? I know that a lot of parts (engines/trans) are now accepted as "stock" even though they were never OEM, and some cars have wrong body parts that NHRA accepted back "in the day" even though shouldn't have (fiberglass scoops on '70 Challengers instead of Shaker scoops like the Cudas). But in all my years (and there are many of them) I have NEVER seen a Stock Elminator 1964 Plymouth with a hood scoop or an aluminum front end.

Or does NHRA truly, absolutely and shamelessly just not care anymore?

God save us from ourselves if we let NHRA morph us into bracket cars.

07-16-2007, 01:42 PM

RLR, Good eye on the '64 frontend. Since I was not at the race and have not seen the car in person I can only go by what is in the classguide.

NHRA now accepts the 426 Hemi with single 4-bl carb for Stock. At 430 refactored horsepower a car would weigh 3610 for A/SA. It is shown as an aluminum frontend combination. The "NASCAR" version used 4 headlights instead of the dragrace version that only had two.

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.

Jeff Lee · 07-16-2007, 02:27 PM

MOPAR aluminum front end cars can run steel in lieu of aluminum also.
T/A Challenger scoops are allowable per Chrysler documentation to NHRA.

Jeff Teuton · 07-16-2007, 02:32 PM

That is the same car that was 400 hp factory, factored to 410 to start, and before I could build one it was factored to 430 hp. I still haven't figured out if the factory single 4bbl (850 or 3 barrel) cross ram is allowed. We had one of these cars and it had a scoop. It was a Dodge version. Along with 'How have you been?', how do you see it, Travis?

07-16-2007, 03:01 PM

Jeff, I am doing great but busy with our Division 3 swing (3 division races in a row).

The manifold and carb numbers are listed in the tech specs. As a Mopar man you should be able to trace them down through Chrysler.

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.

Randall Klein · 07-16-2007, 03:28 PM

Well, RLR, it's been a long journey from tech that demanded correct dash emblems for car claimed...'68 doors on a '67?, been done multiple times (vent windows, side marker lights etc, very obvious in ND); also, been about 10-15 years since '72 Nova won _____, after teching as a '68....not much difference, but the slippery slope just gets steeper; couple of wierdo FWD combos also have slid through in wrong classes, dropping from top qualifier positions to lower in the pack....no dog in this fight, but this is not new

RLR · 07-16-2007, 05:30 PM

[QUOTE=Travis Miller;35285]
NHRA now accepts the 426 Hemi with single 4-bl carb for Stock. At 430 refactored horsepower a car would weigh 3610 for A/SA. It is shown as an aluminum frontend combination. The "NASCAR" version used 4 headlights instead of the dragrace version that only had two.

Travis
Thanks for talking me down off the ledge. My selective memory vaguely recalls the acceptance of this 4 barrel combination not too long ago. It's a beautiful car and I'll be interested to see if it's ever competitive. At 430 hp you'd have to add so much ballast that it might actually hook up, even with that behemoth weighing down the wrong end of the car.

Also, I fondly remember the days when trim packages, options and emblems all had to be purely stock to be legal, and I have sadly watched those standards erode over the years. Like the wrinkles on my face, there's not much to be done about it now.

So ... my sincere apologies to the NHRA tech department. I wrongly accused before I had all the facts. Mea Culpa.

Oldtimer · 07-16-2007, 08:21 PM

I do not agree with the hood scoop, no cars in NASCAR had hood scoops and I am sure that can be proved. Jeff, Jerry Stein has the carb and intake you are referring too. If you want to contact him email me at L88BOB@aol.com

Adger Smith · 07-16-2007, 08:43 PM

Way to go Jeff, If I was building one of those Nascar Hemi's I would want a hood scoop too. If they were availaible why didn't the "King" & his court use them?
So much for the Nascar Hemis having hood scoops. I think there is a Dodge & Plymouth in that picture.
Try this link too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/RICHARD-PETTY-19...QQcmdZViewItem

Adger Smith · 07-16-2007, 09:09 PM

Check out: http://www.cottonowens.com/ Some good ink there about the Nascar Hemis. The photo link doesn't show any hood scoops on the # 6 David Pearson/ Owens Hemi cars.
http://www.cottonowens.com/photos.html

07-16-2007, 12:19 PM	#1
RLR Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	God save us from the NHRA tech dept One of the things that makes s/ss better than bracket racing is that the cars are stock appearing, especially Stock. SS/Mod cars aside, the cars have stock grills and bumpers, and don't have F1 scoops on fiberglass hoods. Imagine my surprise to see a photo on Drag Race Central of a 1964 Plymouth A/SA car with a Hemi hood scoop, and a Max Wedge grill (4 headlights). It looks like a beautiful car, and I'm guessing the owner is a quality guy, BUT... The 1964 aluminum front Max Wedge Plymouths are too light for NHRA A/SA (they run AA/SA in IHRA), so I don't think this is a light weight Wedge car. Also, the Wedge scoop is notched in the center instead of flat across like the Hemi scoops. The steel front Max Wedges (Plymouths & Dodges) did not come with scoops at all. Finally, the Hemi cars had special grills with only 2 headlights. http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCPh...er=30#indextop Even if this scoop is purely cosmetic (no holes above the carbs), this is just WRONG. Will I be able to run '68 doors on my '67 Camaro now? How 'bout a '69 Z/28 scoop on my '67 car ... just like all the bracket racers at my local track. Am I missing something obvious? A rule change? An odd-ball combination? I know that a lot of parts (engines/trans) are now accepted as "stock" even though they were never OEM, and some cars have wrong body parts that NHRA accepted back "in the day" even though shouldn't have (fiberglass scoops on '70 Challengers instead of Shaker scoops like the Cudas). But in all my years (and there are many of them) I have NEVER seen a Stock Elminator 1964 Plymouth with a hood scoop or an aluminum front end. Or does NHRA truly, absolutely and shamelessly just not care anymore? God save us from ourselves if we let NHRA morph us into bracket cars.

07-16-2007, 01:42 PM	#2
Travis Miller Guest Posts: n/a	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept RLR, Good eye on the '64 frontend. Since I was not at the race and have not seen the car in person I can only go by what is in the classguide. NHRA now accepts the 426 Hemi with single 4-bl carb for Stock. At 430 refactored horsepower a car would weigh 3610 for A/SA. It is shown as an aluminum frontend combination. The "NASCAR" version used 4 headlights instead of the dragrace version that only had two. Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.

07-16-2007, 02:27 PM	#3
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept MOPAR aluminum front end cars can run steel in lieu of aluminum also. T/A Challenger scoops are allowable per Chrysler documentation to NHRA. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

07-16-2007, 02:32 PM	#4
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept That is the same car that was 400 hp factory, factored to 410 to start, and before I could build one it was factored to 430 hp. I still haven't figured out if the factory single 4bbl (850 or 3 barrel) cross ram is allowed. We had one of these cars and it had a scoop. It was a Dodge version. Along with 'How have you been?', how do you see it, Travis?

07-16-2007, 03:01 PM	#5
Travis Miller Guest Posts: n/a	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept Jeff, I am doing great but busy with our Division 3 swing (3 division races in a row). The manifold and carb numbers are listed in the tech specs. As a Mopar man you should be able to trace them down through Chrysler. Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.

07-16-2007, 03:28 PM	#6
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 785 Likes: 45 Liked 316 Times in 67 Posts	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept Well, RLR, it's been a long journey from tech that demanded correct dash emblems for car claimed...'68 doors on a '67?, been done multiple times (vent windows, side marker lights etc, very obvious in ND); also, been about 10-15 years since '72 Nova won _____, after teching as a '68....not much difference, but the slippery slope just gets steeper; couple of wierdo FWD combos also have slid through in wrong classes, dropping from top qualifier positions to lower in the pack....no dog in this fight, but this is not new

07-16-2007, 05:30 PM	#7
RLR Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dear NHRA tech dept ... I'm Sorry [QUOTE=Travis Miller;35285] NHRA now accepts the 426 Hemi with single 4-bl carb for Stock. At 430 refactored horsepower a car would weigh 3610 for A/SA. It is shown as an aluminum frontend combination. The "NASCAR" version used 4 headlights instead of the dragrace version that only had two. Travis Thanks for talking me down off the ledge. My selective memory vaguely recalls the acceptance of this 4 barrel combination not too long ago. It's a beautiful car and I'll be interested to see if it's ever competitive. At 430 hp you'd have to add so much ballast that it might actually hook up, even with that behemoth weighing down the wrong end of the car. Also, I fondly remember the days when trim packages, options and emblems all had to be purely stock to be legal, and I have sadly watched those standards erode over the years. Like the wrinkles on my face, there's not much to be done about it now. So ... my sincere apologies to the NHRA tech department. I wrongly accused before I had all the facts. Mea Culpa.

07-16-2007, 08:21 PM	#8
Oldtimer Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arkansas Posts: 87 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept I do not agree with the hood scoop, no cars in NASCAR had hood scoops and I am sure that can be proved. Jeff, Jerry Stein has the carb and intake you are referring too. If you want to contact him email me at L88BOB@aol.com __________________ Bob Pagano L88BOB@aol.com www.dyainc.org 4033 AA/SA

07-16-2007, 08:43 PM	#9
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept Way to go Jeff, If I was building one of those Nascar Hemi's I would want a hood scoop too. If they were availaible why didn't the "King" & his court use them? So much for the Nascar Hemis having hood scoops. I think there is a Dodge & Plymouth in that picture. Try this link too: http://cgi.ebay.com/RICHARD-PETTY-19...QQcmdZViewItem __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 12-21-2007 at 05:09 PM.

07-16-2007, 09:09 PM	#10
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: God save us from the NHRA tech dept Check out: http://www.cottonowens.com/ Some good ink there about the Nascar Hemis. The photo link doesn't show any hood scoops on the # 6 David Pearson/ Owens Hemi cars. http://www.cottonowens.com/photos.html __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)