Future of Pro Stock

[Ed Fernandez]

There's a story on Comp + with Steve Matuzek of Aeromotive about his twinturbo 6.40 Mustang.In a poll
(dont know the source) 48% want to either leave it as is or increase to 650CI.52% want turbos,EFI and
decrease CI to Nascar limits.I guess the times they are a changin........................
And we want more respect from spectators and NHRA?The old fan base is kaput.

Ed F.

[Dick Butler]

training the crowd is part of the goal. If you just make noise and add smoke its great for uninformed crowd. If you appeal to the crowd from the NEW car approach that THEY can buy it is different. Kids like sparks and smoke so they like BIG FOOT. Its is just BIG and noisy. The mechananical Dinosaur that ate cars got a crowd too.(and made quite a mess)

[bill dedman]

Seems to me there are two mindsets as regards the makeup of a class like Pro Stock, and though their goals are the same, their methodologies are diametrically opposed.

On the one hand, you have Wally's old saw, "The Cars ARE the Stars," which carries with it the tag-along, age-old "Ingenuity in Action" philosophy. This was played out in the early days of Pro Stock when the game was new, and variety and engineering one-upmanship were the keywords. There was no dominating combination for very long, because NHRA tech would change the rules regarding pounds per cubic inch for a given combination, or make a new rule regarding weight differentials for long or short wheelbases... making it difficult for any one combination to dominate for very long.

Under that set of parameters, we had Maverick 4-door sedan Pro Stockers, Pinto and Vega Pro Stockers, American Motors engines with welded cylinder heads (take 4 and make two), and everything in between.

Chrysler Hemis dominated for awhile, until NHRA eventually piled so much weight on them (per cubic inch) that they couldn't win anymore, and all of a sudden, this killer combination was abandoned by everyone, including the factory, who just quit running them in Pro Stock.

That was one scenario.... which disappeared overnight, when NHRA finally tired of playing referee in an unending battle to stay on top of things and provide a level playing field by legislating weight breaks, etc. It was replaced in one fell swoop with the "one size fits all," 500cid/2,350 lbs. formula that we've had for the last 25+ years.

The "new" formula, whether inadvertantly or not, shifted the focus from the cars to the drivers (or, "personalities") as the cars soon became "cookie cutter" in many ways, and have at this date, evolved to the point that a 16 car field may only be separated by about seven hundredths of a second, making it pretty much a "drivers' race."

But, over the years, the class has stagnated technologically to the point that even though it's close racing (no argument there), it's not very exciting for some of us, because the cars are either based on Rat Motor derivitaves, or "new" Hemi technology, with no truly competitive Fords in the mix. Not for a long, long time.

Clutchless shifting has taken a lot of the driving aspect out of the performance, and the prohibition of fuel injection is a head-shaker that defies explanation; Detroit hasn't make a car with a carburetor on it in at least 20 years, and these cars are supposedly Pro STOCK.... heavy on the "Stock."

So, with the technological stagnation and resultant lack of mechanical innovation and "ingenuity" in evidence, it seems like Pro Stock is over-ripe for a re-think to regain some of the luster of its first few years.

Is it time to start including a different kind of powerplant in these cars? When the rules were written for Pro Stock, a lot of the things that cars now come "stock" with, weren't being built. To wit; distributorless ignition systems, computerized fuel injection, 4-valve cylinder heads and turbos and superchargers.

If these Pro Stockers are "Detorit Hot Rods" as NHRA used to call them, maybe it's time to think about a re-do on the rules to add some fresh new combinations and some powerplant variety to spice up a moldy, old recipe. Or, change the name of the class to Pro Nostalgia Doorslammer, or something equally descriptive.

What they now have isn't as exciting as it could be, I think. It fulfills the "drivers are the stars" philosophy, but I think that while that seems to work for NASCAR, the NHRA cars have so much more to offer the paying spectator... or, could, if NHRA will allow them to be built and raced, it may be time to look at the situation in the light of "CHANGE".

Change "for the sake of change" isn't necessarily good, but this has some merit, I think.

Food for thought...


Bill

[big blue galaxie]

I couldn't agree more. The biggest problem that I have seen with motorsports is that when corporations get a hold of them and start homogenizing everything for the sake of profit, the stagnation that you mentioned so well gets in and wrecks it. NASCAR went that way and we see the effect of it; it's all the same with no personality. I never thought I would say this but maybe what needs to happen is a new racing organization needs to be started that implements all the good ideas that this forum has been sharing, since the powers that be have forgotten their roots. I see the frustration, and there are enough people here that something good can come out of it. We are the people that make the NHRA and everyone else exist; for without the racers they can't exist.

[FED 387]

Bill Dedman I agree whole heartedly with your take on this however I think that 2 things come into play here--
FIRST) Pro Stock is the ultimate Carb class Pro level entry--Unlimited with some limitations but maybe not like IHRA either

SECOND) NHRA either does not have the technical expertise OR DOES NOT want to commit the time or $$$ to police the rules either

Obviously something needs to be changed ( I do not know what the answer is) or the class will stagnate and more and more participants/entrants will drop out

My 2 cents Dick Ullrich Comp 387

[X-TECH MAN]

Why not get rid of the multi-million dollar Pro Stock class as we know it and replace it with cars and class rule/structure that already exists......Its now called TOP STOCK. Old and new body styles, carbs and FI. REAL cars not some tubed framed frankinstine that only a few can afford and even they cant run without big sponsorships. One controling factor.....HP ratings and the need of real and extensive inspections. Brings back 1970 (almost) all over again when anyone could almost afford to race in Pro Stock. Just my 2 cents.

[X-TECH MAN]

P.S. Dont forget the wheelstands and the shifting of gears that get the fans turned on......something that todays Pro Stock dosent have.

[Doug Blackley]

Kinda like what's old is new again. Maybe a Top Stk, Jr Stk, Hemi shootout and Top SS with a Jr SS added. The only downside might be it could lead to dropping the traditional SS and Stk classes at Nat'ls. This is almost a be careful what you wish for scenario. Another problem is these types of classes would require a full teardown to keep things in line which takes a pile of time for all involved. But then there are those who will say tear them all apart every time.

[bill dedman]

Thanks for the responses; looks like I'm not the only one who thinks that there needs to be some kind of change to the Pro Stock program to freshen it up and generate some new excitement.

I do think that if they're going to call it Pro Stock (and, I can't imagine that they'd change the name after nearly 40 years), that it should remain a Professional category, and as such, must retain the mechanical excellence that it now enjoys, which will mean it will continue to be a class that requires money in large amounts to be competitive in. Carbon fiber this and Titanum that will continue to be "de rigueur" on the better cars, and it will be hard to build a competitive car without such materials.

Engine choices will depend on the rules, and the rules right now are restrictive to the point that it's cookie cutter all the way. Boring, to me. Those engines all put out an incredible amount of power for what they are, but since they are all alike and equally powerful within a few HP of each other, it's a driver's race.... and that's the boring part, for me. It gets down to who can cut a light, and I don't find a good guess on the tree as exciting as watching two very different engines, with very different specs, race each other, heads-up.

Instead of two basic engine designs competing for Pro Stock money, they could have ten different combinations, from multi-valve turbocharged engines to supercharged hemis, to unblown mountain motors, not unlike what the IHRA Pro Stockers are famous for. Fuel injection should be a "no penalty" option.

But, what do I know??? It just seems that Pro Stock as it exists today, is not a very exciting program, at least, to me. Not much is going to happen until the economy picks up, probably... if then.

Too bad; we need it now.

[david ring]

I just want to point out that the class the innovative guy is racing in is comp!