Tear Down B/S ... must read

[Jared Jordan]

I have it on good authority that the language of the rule is going to be changed to delete the word “primary,” thereby making what the Williams Bros had done legal. Doesn’t help them this weekend though.

It’s like getting ticketed for going 35 in a 25 mph zone and then they raise the speed limit the next day.

[Frank Castros]

How many of these cars made R1 as alternates?

------------ Not Qualified ------------

129 333 AA/S Brett McFarland, Manchester OH, '68 Camaro 9.875 10.70 -0.825
130 5351 G/SA Keith Hildahl, Northfield MN, '73 Mustang 11.178 12.00 -0.822
131 3657 O/SA Marty Buth, Freeport IL, '84 Mustang 12.331 13.15 -0.819
132 338H FS/AA Tony Fagnilli, Caropolis PA, '19 Camaro 8.584 9.40 -0.816
133 1925 K/SA Tim Barrett, Fort Ann NY, '69 Camaro 11.840 12.65 -0.810
134 329 U/SA Dan Tool, Jacksonville IL, '79 Mustang 14.049 14.85 -0.801
135 5077 B/S Jerry Mooney, Wall SD, '68 Mustang 10.459 11.20 -0.741
136 3027 I/SA Doug Deck, O'Fallon IL, '99 Mustang 11.560 12.30 -0.740
137 2586 V/SA McNeal Freeman, Conyers GA, '87 Caprice 14.768 15.50 -0.732
138 3355 R/S Timothy Weinzapfel, Mount Vernon IN, '66 13.220 13.95 -0.730
139 7832 EF/S Gary Lucier, Kingman AZ, '84 Daytona 16.760 17.45 -0.690
140 1329 D/S Denny Ford, Eighty Four PA, '62 Biscayne 10.817 11.50 -0.683
141 3139 EF/S Ron Seibenick, Perry OH, '86 Tempo 16.812 17.45 -0.638
142 319 F/SA Jim Stone, Henderson KY, '80 Corvette 11.214 11.85 -0.636
143 5502 A/S Paul Anderson, Lewiston MN, '69 Camaro 10.798 10.95 -0.152

[L.Fite]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Yes, the Quick Fuel 780 as approved, accepted, and delivered, came with holes in all four throttle plates, and we were told to drive lead plugs into the openings to cover the secondary idle mixture adjustment screws.

So...
Were the idle screws removed as required?
If so they probably should have been given the option of fix the holes...
A 15 minute fix with a little solder...
Was that after all qualifying was over?
Were they DQ'd from class?
Or the hole event?

Kind of a dumb rule in my opinion...
Don't even see the secondary idle screws as a performance advantage...
Especially when the rules state "any internal modification allowed"...
Or did I misread that?
Can someone explain the advantage, I'm always willing to learn something new...

[Julie Jordan]

Originally Posted by Frank Castros

How many of these cars made R1 as alternates?

------------ Not Qualified ------------

129 333 AA/S Brett McFarland, Manchester OH, '68 Camaro 9.875 10.70 -0.825
130 5351 G/SA Keith Hildahl, Northfield MN, '73 Mustang 11.178 12.00 -0.822
131 3657 O/SA Marty Buth, Freeport IL, '84 Mustang 12.331 13.15 -0.819
132 338H FS/AA Tony Fagnilli, Caropolis PA, '19 Camaro 8.584 9.40 -0.816
133 1925 K/SA Tim Barrett, Fort Ann NY, '69 Camaro 11.840 12.65 -0.810
134 329 U/SA Dan Tool, Jacksonville IL, '79 Mustang 14.049 14.85 -0.801
135 5077 B/S Jerry Mooney, Wall SD, '68 Mustang 10.459 11.20 -0.741
136 3027 I/SA Doug Deck, O'Fallon IL, '99 Mustang 11.560 12.30 -0.740
137 2586 V/SA McNeal Freeman, Conyers GA, '87 Caprice 14.768 15.50 -0.732
138 3355 R/S Timothy Weinzapfel, Mount Vernon IN, '66 13.220 13.95 -0.730
139 7832 EF/S Gary Lucier, Kingman AZ, '84 Daytona 16.760 17.45 -0.690
140 1329 D/S Denny Ford, Eighty Four PA, '62 Biscayne 10.817 11.50 -0.683
141 3139 EF/S Ron Seibenick, Perry OH, '86 Tempo 16.812 17.45 -0.638
142 319 F/SA Jim Stone, Henderson KY, '80 Corvette 11.214 11.85 -0.636
143 5502 A/S Paul Anderson, Lewiston MN, '69 Camaro 10.798 10.95 -0.152

The first four got in.

[1347]

Originally Posted by L.Fite

So...
Were the idle screws removed as required?
If so they probably should have been given the option of fix the holes...
A 15 minute fix with a little solder...
Was that after all qualifying was over?
Were they DQ'd from class?
Or the hole event?

Kind of a dumb rule in my opinion...
Don't even see the secondary idle screws as a performance advantage...
Especially when the rules state "any internal modification allowed"...
Or did I misread that?
Can someone explain the advantage, I'm always willing to learn something new...

Qualifying and class were over. There was no chance to fix it and run again. There are alot of things that are not a performance advantage that are illegal in class racing. Its not techs job to decide what they will let go thru in the barn because the rule doesnt help performance.
Someone was told.they couldnt run without fog lights in their bumper cover. Luckily they had them and it was taken care of.before Qualifying and class was all done.

I heard a tech official say " we bounced ....... for the same modification 2 years ago, we cant let it go today"

[Mike Pearson]

I just took a few minutes and read the carburetor section of the rule book for Stock Eliminator. The rule clearly states that you can drill the primary throttle plates. It does not say you can drill the secondary throttle plates. It does state that no other modifications can be done. If indeed the secondary throttle plates were drilled the carb is illegal by the rule book and the interpretation of the rule is correct by the tech department. If it passed before it doesn?t supersede the rule as printed at this time. I have been tossed in the past for an insignificant detail like this. All you can do it?s take the penalty and move on. Fix the issue. Have the repair inspected by tech before the next race and run even faster.

[pmrphil]

Originally Posted by L.Fite

So...
Were the idle screws removed as required?
If so they probably should have been given the option of fix the holes...
A 15 minute fix with a little solder...
Was that after all qualifying was over?
Were they DQ'd from class?
Or the hole event?

Kind of a dumb rule in my opinion...
Don't even see the secondary idle screws as a performance advantage...
Especially when the rules state "any internal modification allowed"...
Or did I misread that?
Can someone explain the advantage, I'm always willing to learn something new...

NOT the mixture screws - the issue was holes drilled in the secondary throttle blades. For which there is NO performance added. ZERO. The rule book says no, but the approved Quick Fuel carbs (SSR 780) came with holes in all 4 blades.
The idle mixture screw heads had to be "covered" to make them "legal".

[SS3860]

Originally Posted by pmrphil

NOT the mixture screws - the issue was holes drilled in the secondary throttle blades. For which there is NO performance added. ZERO. The rule book says no, but the approved Quick Fuel carbs (SSR 780) came with holes in all 4 blades.
The idle mixture screw heads had to be "covered" to make them "legal".

The Quick Fuel carbs did not come with the secondary plates drilled. The idle mixture screws were cut down so you could adjust them and then use Grey silicone to cover them.

Tom Flowers
E/SA 3860

[Ralph A Powell]

So you turned a 735 cfm carb into a 780 cfm?

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Hey guys, a post I did not want to make. Dan Williams in his B/S 69 Nova was DQ'd from the race for a carb infraction, having two holes drilled in the secondary plates. The holes are drilled for idle quality, but NHRA says that is illegal.

I thought that rule was gone years ago. With Quick Fuel carbs be legal along with swapping out boosters on the older Holley carbs. I was shocked Dan was DQ'd. And for anyone to say booster swaps are not allowed, you would be wrong. I replaced the boosters on my Mustang when I ran the 735 Holley and they were deemed legal by NHRA.

I would think a booster swap would be a performance gain, not two small holes in the secondary throttle plates... go figure.

The real kicker hear is Dan has been torn down many times, the last time was 2019 here at Indy with the same carb and NHRA had no issues with it. These guys come all the way here from England to support NHRA and get bounced for a rule that should have been taken off the books years ago.

Its really sad that rules are not updated for consistency. Aftermarket carbs, other mods to the carbs are okay, but not to small holes that give no performance gain.

I applaud NHRA for tear down, there is four stockers with the heads coming off and dozens of Stock and Super Stockers getting Carbs and throttle bodies checked along with fuel injected cars have to give access to there ecu data... but come on, getting bounced for two small holes in the carbs, so disappointing.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Yes, the Quick Fuel 780 as approved, accepted, and delivered, came with holes in all four throttle plates, and we were told to drive lead plugs into the openings to cover the secondary idle mixture adjustment screws.

Why is it there are NO throttle plate holes shown in the Quick Fuel 780 carb photos accepted for Stock or S/S on any of the Aftermarket sights?