New Ford 5.0 On The Books

[Ed Wright]

Since the drag packs got factored into A & AA, it probably won't be long until new engines hit the paper with small changes and more bogus-low hp ratings. It's becoming a big joke. The slow guys that suddenly got fast are going to need something to get back into the lower classes where the water ain't so deep.

[Charley Downing]

Just added for the 2012 302ci an Eaton blower rated at 345hp.

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Not many people grasp the concept Ed.

I said two years ago that what would happen is the factories could literally have "paper engines" that they never even had to assemble as prototypes or even make anything but blocks, cranks, heads, and intakes for.

With the new rule, the factories could actually let a racer go through their catalog and create an engine out of part numbers, then the factory can submit the "engine" with an arbitrary low ball power rating.

This new rule means it does not cost the factories more than about $500 to create a "new engine" any time they want one. They pay a guy to fill out some tech sheets and submit them to NHRA. And all they have to do is make ONE change in the cam or piston specs, and it is a different "engine". And they don't even have to make a single part.

Even if NHRA said "send us a piston", the factory could just say "we're buying them from XYZ pistons, we'll have them send you one" and have "XYZ pistons" make a dozen, and submit an "original" and their "race version" to NHRA.

Pandora's box is wide open now. Who knows what will come out next.

Alan, I think your pretty dead on with this, however I tend to look at both sides of the argument.
Back "in the day" factories got involved and the war was on. It got so wild they eventually spawned the FX classes then funny car. Very innovative times. For YEARS everybody on here or involved in class racing bemoaned the fact that S/SS is being abandoned and "wouldn't it be awesome if factories got involved again".
Well, they have.
And in a big way.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think you hit it dead on. I only look at the bigger picture and see while there are certainly downfalls with paper cars and engines flying into the guide, there will be other larger benefits. Just being on the radar screen so-to-speak is huge! The fact that they are building cars and engines FOR COMPETITION right at the factory is eye popping if you look back say 10 years ago.
Once the big set ups are commonplace perhaps the smaller combo's/engines will be given more attention too.

The old combo's will be "playing against the house" and we know who wins there....that said though, there still hasn't been a runaway in wins for the new stuff on national or div level.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by charley downing

just added for the 2012 302ci an eaton blower rated at 345hp.

lol...you're a funny man !

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by goinbroke2

Alan, I think your pretty dead on with this, however I tend to look at both sides of the argument.
Back "in the day" factories got involved and the war was on. It got so wild they eventually spawned the FX classes then funny car. Very innovative times. For YEARS everybody on here or involved in class racing bemoaned the fact that S/SS is being abandoned and "wouldn't it be awesome if factories got involved again".
Well, they have.
And in a big way.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think you hit it dead on. I only look at the bigger picture and see while there are certainly downfalls with paper cars and engines flying into the guide, there will be other larger benefits. Just being on the radar screen so-to-speak is huge! The fact that they are building cars and engines FOR COMPETITION right at the factory is eye popping if you look back say 10 years ago.
Once the big set ups are commonplace perhaps the smaller combo's/engines will be given more attention too.

The old combo's will be "playing against the house" and we know who wins there....that said though, there still hasn't been a runaway in wins for the new stuff on national or div level.

Back then, the factories were making parts, and complete cars, though. And with regards to Stock and Super Stock, they were making real cars you bought at the dealer and drove on the street. Now they're making paper engines, and cars that can't be driven on the street, legally, period.

Yes, the factories are "involved" again. But is it good for the sport, or even good for the market?

Yes, people complained that the factories weren't "involved". They may soon wish they'd been more careful what they wished for.


No, other than one or two examples, no one has done much event winning, yet.


It would be FAR different if the manufacturers were building affordable, production street legal cars, but they're not. None of the big three is building a light weight semi stripped down under $30K high performance street car. They're building over weight, over loaded, over complicated $40K boat anchors. They could be building 3200-3400 pound cars with few options, less BS, and a far lower price. But they are not.

No, this is not by any stretch a "return to those thrilling days of yesteryear" when you could go buy an affordable muscle car, with rubber floor mats or thin carpet, hand crank windows, no power door locks, no high dollar radio, but with a stout engine and drivetrain. That is exactly what is wrong with this "movement". That is why this is not as good for the sport or the market as people want to think.

If this whole thing was getting 18-24 year-olds into $25K factory hot rods off the showroom floor, building a fan base and a participant base for the sport and the market, for the future, it would be a great thing. That's not happening, and it's not going to happen with the current structure.

[X-TECH MAN]

The main reason the new cars are not winning every race is the fact that there are not enough out there in the eliminator YET and the fact that it is primarally a "Bracket" race which requires a lot of skill and luck to win. When the eliminator starts to have an equal numbers as old cars look out. They will win all of the heads up runs, be the low qualifyers and when there is enough of them it will be a very boring show to see nothing but DP's and new Mustangs running....blown or unblown.

[dwydendorf]

Things in the Auto industry are much different today than they were in the Muscle car era. How many of you are still running a dual point distributor? How many of you listen to a radio that has vacuum tubes? How many of you still listen to the Radio? NHRA changed things because they realize that the new cars are their future and like it or not it is here to stay. Back in the 60's and early 70's did you think that people running model T Fords ( a forty year old car back then) were running something obsolete? I thought the 50 Olds and 56 Chevys were old back then. Would I still like to take my 70 Mustang to the U.S.Nationals and win class in Super Stock J again? Sure, but I realized over 15 years ago that those days were numbered and while I still could be competetive with that car in the eliminator, that other cars in the class were much more competetive. I am sure that the people who lost their jobs making vacuum tubes and dual point distributors were not happy to lose their jobs but times change. I still have my 70 Mustang and it still could be raced, but I built a replacement and have no plans to go backwards. All I am saying is either choose to replace what you have, or come to terms with the fact that maybe you may not be the fastest car in your class anymore because times have changed and you cannot control that.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Things in the Auto industry are much different today than they were in the Muscle car era. How many of you are still running a dual point distributor? How many of you listen to a radio that has vacuum tubes? How many of you still listen to the Radio? NHRA changed things because they realize that the new cars are their future and like it or not it is here to stay. Back in the 60's and early 70's did you think that people running model T Fords ( a forty year old car back then) were running something obsolete? I thought the 50 Olds and 56 Chevys were old back then. Would I still like to take my 70 Mustang to the U.S.Nationals and win class in Super Stock J again? Sure, but I realized over 15 years ago that those days were numbered and while I still could be competetive with that car in the eliminator, that other cars in the class were much more competetive. I am sure that the people who lost their jobs making vacuum tubes and dual point distributors were not happy to lose their jobs but times change. I still have my 70 Mustang and it still could be raced, but I built a replacement and have no plans to go backwards. All I am saying is either choose to replace what you have, or come to terms with the fact that maybe you may not be the fastest car in your class anymore because times have changed and you cannot control that.

There is NOTHING wrong with the new cars........Just get the HP factors corrected and put them where they should be. Thats 99% of the gripe !

[dwydendorf]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

There is NOTHING wrong with the new cars........Just get the HP factors corrected and put them where they should be. Thats 99% of the gripe !

The problem is that everyone complains about the new cars and their horsepower factors instead of complaining about the AHFS and the fact that is does not react quick enough to any underrated combination whether it is an old car or a new car. Again it is the system in place that needs to be straightened out not just the new cars but nobody directs their complaints to that.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

The problem is that everyone complains about the new cars and their horsepower factors instead of complaining about the AHFS and the fact that is does not react quick enough to any underrated combination whether it is an old car or a new car. Again it is the system in place that needs to be straightened out not just the new cars but nobody directs their complaints to that.

I have before....the AHFS will NEVER work in its present form because of the game playing and 1000 ft shut off runs everyone is playing. Its not so much the system as it is the dummys who accepted the HP ratings to begin with no matter what they were and the non action of NHRA to do much of anything about it. They just dont seem to care about the guys who have supported them for so many years in the past and just want to cater to the money guys who can afford these new combos of the week.