Combo Races

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Alan, Andrew and I would come to Jackson for a two or three race deal but it's just too far for a regular combo. From my shop in Jeffersonville it's probably 340-350 miles. We would also like Memphis for a bigger money deal.

Greg, I can understand and respect that. Although the Jackson deal pays $1K to win, almost as much as an LODRS race, for what is likely to be a 32 car or smaller field, in one day, being treated like a valued customer, with only a $50 entry fee. But you're right, it is twice the distance for you compared to the distance for us, making it a 6-7 hour tow. I do completely understand your reluctance to make the trip.


I cannot speak for what will happen at Memphis, I want to be VERY clear on that. I did hear that it would open in July some time. That is ALL I know.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Mark Ruset

Alan with fuel prices what they are and working around our jobs a 2 day race with a maximun of 300 miles would make sense, now about the heads up and IHRA class cars, why don't we forget about heads up runs and let everyone run off their own dial in. The only stipulation would be that the cars are stock or super stock in their own sanctioning bodies. My $.02.

Mark, again, it is the overwhelming majority of the currently participating racers in our area that expressed their desire to have heads up races (I agree with this, and heads up races are rare, we've seen maybe 2-3 in the last 2 years at Bowling Green) and to run an NHRA class program. Thank you for the time/distance input as well, it is a big help.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Mark, again, it is the overwhelming majority of the currently participating racers in our area that expressed their desire to have heads up races (I agree with this, and heads up races are rare, we've seen maybe 2-3 in the last 2 years at Bowling Green) and to run an NHRA class program. Thank you for the time/distance input as well, it is a big help.

I thought the people complaining about IHRA cars were not complaining about Crate Motor, Pure Stock, or any other IHRA only classes but rather legal NHRA cars running off IHRA indexes that are .3 softer than NHRA's and HP ratings that are a lot less in IHRA. I was one who asked why people were allowed to do this, but I have no problem with actual IHRA only cars.

[R. Thorne]

Alan, why not compromise and run off the "old" nhra indexes (current ihra indexes) but run nhra classes only. Sounds like that might help Danny and bring in some ihra cars that can't currently hit the nhra index (myself included). In the current cost-cutting economy, run 1/8th mile even at beech bend (less fuel and wear and tear). Lastly, 5-6 hour tow from So. In. would be my limit.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

I would not support a combo that was not open to ALL legal xHRA cars.

Good point.
There are 2 NHRA tracks around me that run combo races.

The 1/8th mile track allows all class racers from both sanctioning bodies.

The 1/4 mile track will not allow IHRA Pure Stockers, CM, or Stock GT cars.

I would love to run 1/4 with my PS....otherwise I will have to build an NHRA Stocker to run 1/4.....

[danny waters sr]

A lot of reason why IHRA hp factors are in some cases softer is because IHRA will not change a hp factor to match the NHRA hp.This is because some of these cars did not run fast enough at IHRA races to get hp. Now if they do ,they will get hp per the factor, but not bases on NHRA performance...You come to IHRA and run enough under you will get factored.......Example my 283 is factored at 210 in IHRA and can run j,k,&L. (still not stupid fast even @ 210 hp)
In NHRA i have to run I,J,& K along with a 3 tenths index hit before i even leave home... I know ,"i need to work on my $h*t" Anybody wants to chip in the cash (mine is GONE )i'll work on it. Just racing on a budget right now in hopes of things getting better......

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by R. Thorne

Alan, why not compromise and run off the "old" nhra indexes (current ihra indexes) but run nhra classes only. Sounds like that might help Danny and bring in some ihra cars that can't currently hit the nhra index (myself included). In the current cost-cutting economy, run 1/8th mile even at beech bend (less fuel and wear and tear). Lastly, 5-6 hour tow from So. In. would be my limit.

It is not up to me to make such decisions.

Currently, the Bowling Green races are 1/4 mile, and they are likely to stay that way, simply because whether we like it or not, the cars are built for LODRS races and national events, which are 1/4 mile, as such, racers tend to use any race to improve their 1/4 mile program.

Now, the Jackson track we raced at Saturday is an 1/8 mile track. I do realize that the distance there is a problem for you.

Again, thank you to all who have voted, and thank you to those who have given time/distance limits, the input is very helpful and appreciated.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Mike and Danny, it's too bad you feel that way. The Bowling Green combo series is run that way, and consistently draws 50 cars or more for a $50 entry fee and a guaranteed purse. They hold 5 or more races a year with excellent attendance.

Bowling Green does have scales and heads up racing. I'd say for the bigger money races we might even be able to get fuel checks and more exhaustive tech.

I myself am not anti IHRA, and I'm not terribly hung up on excluding IHRA classes. However, several regular attendees did complain that they felt some racers were using soft factors and soft indexes from IHRA to avoid possible heads up races and gain qualifying advantages. Given that Bowling Green is an NHRA track, the decision was made, with the support of the vast majority of racers, to run NHRA classes only. There had only been a couple of cars there that did not fit an NHRA class to begin with.

Alan, I wasn't meaning so much the softer Indexes/factors. I was referring to the IHRA-only classes (SS/Production, Stock/GT, Pure Stock and C/M Stock specifically--you could combine the Truck and EFI classes into regular Stock, ala NHRA). We have several of those that compete in our races. Last year at Hagerstown MD in November, we had fifty-five cars for the weekend. Nine of those were in the above mentioned IHRA sub-classes. I feel allowing any legal car that can compete in Stock or Super Stock, at an NHRA or IHRA event, should be welcomed at any events such as these. We don't have heads-ups in our series, but few, if any, would be switching classes just to avoid such a run. The SS/Production cars, I suppose, could cross over into SS/AS, SS/BS, etc (at a rules disadvantage). But the other sub-classes would be left out, which should not be the case for a good S/SS race for good money (Hagerstown is a $100 entry, $2,000 guaranteed race).

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Alan, I wasn't meaning so much the softer Indexes/factors. I was referring to the IHRA-only classes (SS/Production, Stock/GT, Pure Stock and C/M Stock specifically--you could combine the Truck and EFI classes into regular Stock, ala NHRA). We have several of those that compete in our races. Last year at Hagerstown MD in November, we had fifty-five cars for the weekend. Nine of those were in the above mentioned IHRA sub-classes. I feel allowing any legal car that can compete in Stock or Super Stock, at an NHRA or IHRA event, should be welcomed at any events such as these. We don't have heads-ups in our series, but few, if any, would be switching classes just to avoid such a run. The SS/Production cars, I suppose, could cross over into SS/AS, SS/BS, etc (at a rules disadvantage). But the other sub-classes would be left out, which should not be the case for a good S/SS race for good money (Hagerstown is a $100 entry, $2,000 guaranteed race).

Mike, I appreciate the input. Again, I am not in any position to make such a decision, and the decision was made previously with the input and blessing of what I saw from the outside to be a pretty large majority of the regular participating racers.

Again, we DO have heads up racing, at the request of the racers, and this I agree with completely. So yes, it does make a difference when people use softer indexes and such to avoid heads up races. I agree with the racers who feel that with out any possibility of heads up racing, we're bracket racing, it isn't a class racing combo.

When you have a regular field of 50 plus cars, it's sort of difficult and risky to demand they accept change to accommodate a few cars that may or may not show up. What I'm saying is that in the past I think I saw maybe 3-4 cars total, and only 1-2 at any one race, that would not fit an NHRA class. I can't say I'd be willing to go tell Dallas or Clay they HAD to accept IHRA classes for those 3-4 cars when the majority of their paying customers were opposed to adding classes.

This has nothing to do with MY preferences, or what I agree with, I have zero control over this decision.

[Mike Carr]

I understand that, Alan. If it were me, I'd make the rule that any car that CAN fit an NHRA class must do so, at the NHRA horsepower/index. Example, a '93-'97 Camaro in SS/IA in NHRA is rated 279, on a 10.70 Index. In IHRA, it's rated 275, Index 11.00. At a super-combo, they would have to run at 279 HP, 10.70 Index. Same with Trucks, FI Stockers, etc. (C/SA instead of B/FIA, M/SA instead of FT/SA, etc). No claiming the IHRA hp/Index/Class to avoid a heads-up. Other than SS/Production, the IHRA S/S are the same (though IHRA still has the old SS/Modified Compact classes, the change would be pretty simple, example, a SS/EC in IHRA is a SS/GS now in NHRA, so a racer would use SS/GS at a race like this).

The IHRA-only classes would compete at their hp/index, since there is no comparable NHRA class(es) for Stock/GT, Crate Motor and Pure Stock. FWD Stocker classes are WAY different between the two HRA's, so how that would be handled could be debated (many good HF/SA cars will never be competitive as an EF/S).

As for our races here locally, we'd lose a good number of cars at certain races by using NHRA-only cars. Since the purse is car count-based (except for the guaranteed $2K to win in H-town each November), I can't afford to lose cars.