Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing

[Greg Barsamian]

Would also like to say that having spoken to Lonnie and Ned, they both want to bring it back to racing as we know it but their hands are tied because 1) they aren't stk/ss guys - never claimed to be - and try to react to what he racers want or were told they want. They also know they need a stk/ss experienced person/people who know what's really happening and can read between the lines. It be no different if they threw me in super comp. Would take time to figure it out and then multiply that by all the classes and their agendas who believe they are most important. Tough job for anyone.

Look no further than Mr.(Stock/Superstock) Dave Ley

[Signman]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Okay, I see where you're going.I really didn't notice it hurting much of anything though.

That was 12 years ago too. I just looked at St. Louis with 156 cars, and you'd have to look long and hard to find anyone who can't go 3 tenths under the current indexes.
Seems to me, if it's really supposed to be a performance eliminator, there has to be some give and take on both ends.. meaning lower the indexes X amount every few years and raise the triggers X amount to keep things balanced for the sake of progress.
Otherwise eventually, every time there's a heads up run , somebody's getting hp. Everyone else is de-tuned or ET dropping to avoid the trigger.
I know, some people want the hits...for the other combo in their class, but where will it end? With just more 1000' runs, I'd guess.
This is giving me a headache, I do know that much.

I believe lowering the indexes actually influences racers to add the expensive enhancements to make HP

In 2009 came out with my stocker after building it from scratch for 5 years. I had some good people to talk to and massaged the car front to back. Engine and trans were quality but not what would be called state of the art. After reading and hearing as well as getting solid advice to not get disappointed if it couldn't run the index it did the first run by the end of the year could go -.90, was competitive and did some damage. 2010 the index dropped .3 was able to find another .10 with -.70 the best it would go.

Well after a few races the ladder was no longer friendly and became obvious a couple of faster cars were always setting up for and easy heads up. Got tired of trying to avoid them along with some looking down their nose at me. As Gino advised several times "opened my wallet". The car was pretty well massaged as I constantly worked on it and the tune another good comment was "Frank all you need HP".

So the Italian came out........

Would not have done all the expensive "updates" if the indexes were left alone, all that happened was those who were protecting their combination sped up. My old engine could go 300 runs not vary much in HP and need a basic freshen, the good engine wants attention after every season.
Won't regret what I learned and the good people met during the process though!!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Seems to me, if it's really supposed to be a performance eliminator, there has to be some give and take on both ends.. meaning lower the indexes X amount every few years and raise the triggers X amount to keep things balanced for the sake of progress.

If this is REALLY supposed to be a performance (based) eliminator then NHRA needs to have knowledgeable people in the right places to make absolutely certain that the rules (as written) are being followed! And no, not having qualified people in the right places is no excuse. They (NHRA) seems to have plenty of qualified people in place to tech the Pros who have far looser rules than we (S/SS) do. No letting things slide for certain combos (and certain people) and no turning a blind eye to certain "enhancements" (heads) for fear of being hit with a lawsuit.
Start enforcing the rules as written and watch things (cars) slow down.

[Mark Yacavone]

" Combine sticks and automatics"

"Eliminate half pound breaks"

I can think of as many problems with this as there are advantages.

For the advocates of these, what do you hope to accomplish, and what do you do about the inherent problems they create? ...and believe me there are many when you study the details.

[Jim Caughlin]

So if you combine stick and auto, do you use the index that is the fast of the two or the slower? Also, if you're going to do that, what about the weight deduct for autos in the Modified classes? Same question there, do you use the indexes as is or do you recalculate for the lighter auto weights?

[Brian Oakes]

Alot of good points here, Mike and Billy, but i would like too add to this , but WHY nothing will happen they made the new rule for next year already, and they will not change a thing, you cannot fix STUPID and i think if you do not have a car in computation , stay OUT of this subject.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Brian Oakes

Alot of good points here, Mike and Billy, but i would like too add to this , but WHY nothing will happen they made the new rule for next year already, and they will not change a thing, you cannot fix STUPID and i think if you do not have a car in computation , stay OUT of this subject.

I guess I didn't make any good points and not actively in computation at Nationals and divisionals but I do race local combo races now as do a lot of others. We run the exact same rules horsepower classification whatever and we do have heads up runs so what happens on the national stage also affects us so we are here t o o.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Brian Oakes

Alot of good points here, Mike and Billy, but i would like too add to this , but WHY nothing will happen they made the new rule for next year already, and they will not change a thing, you cannot fix STUPID and i think if you do not have a car in computation , stay OUT of this subject.

Boy Quack, I HOPE that you're not talking about me!

[Ryan Horensky]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Boy Quack, I HOPE that you're not talking about me!

He definitely isn’t Billy. I would suspect he’s talking about some people who post on here with their vision of how stock and super stock should be, but are not active participants of either class.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

" Combine sticks and automatics"

"Eliminate half pound breaks"

I can think of as many problems with this as there are advantages.

For the advocates of these, what do you hope to accomplish, and what do you do about the inherent problems they create? ...and believe me there are many when you study the details.

What these folks that advocate the above changes are hoping to do is return the class back to being a performance based class. Another step in that direction would be qualified fields at National Events. Making Stock a more performance based class would spread the sheer joy of demonstrating performance that we love at Indy, to all National events. Adding these elements would also address problems associated with the AFHS relatively quickly, with so many more racers having to show what they got more frequently.

It would be interesting to see a poll among active stock/SS racers on if these ideas have broad support. There are certainly downsides to consider.