Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing

[ken robinson]

Just my opinion the 3 tenth hit to the indexes in 2009 , and the mineshaft safety net was the 2 big changes that I saw .

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by ken robinson

Just my opinion the 3 tenth hit to the indexes in 2009 , and the mineshaft safety net was the 2 big changes that I saw .

How so? Please elaborate.

[ken robinson]

In 2008 I forget how fast you needed to go to get HP. But if you could go 1.20 under in 2009 than you would have been 1.50 under in 2008. Just saying . And after the 3 tenth hit it seamed to kill the car count . The mineshaft rule and the 3 tenth hit just seamed like a way out , to not to give out HP to me at least .

[Nick Heath]

http://sportsman.nhra.com/content/ab...604&zoneid=101

Pre-2010, the magic numbers were:
-1.40 for an instant hit
-1.15 for a trigger
-1.00 average for a HP increase

Then in 2010, we adjusted the indexes 0.30 and changed the triggers to:
-1.20 for an instant hit (-1.50 vs. old index)
-1.00 for a trigger (-1.30 vs. old index)
-0.85 average for a HP increase (-1.15 vs. old index)

[AveryMcLawhorn]

Being newer to class racing overall after my family has been involved since the 1960s I have a slightly different perspective than most on why I think class racing is suffering. Listening to my grandad talk and explain all the stuff they did back in the day motors were built for a fraction of the cost and built in garages in people's back yards. I think one has to evaluate the financial strain that class racing as involved into today as compared to the 2010s, 2000s, and 1990s. A person can now go out and buy a much cheaper bracket car and enter a local 5K bracket race for entry fee of $100. Very broadly speaking they are typically showing up to the track in a pickup and trailer. Where we as class racers are paying over $200 dollars in entry fees for a low overall winnings. That of course is not including all the rigs and stacker trailers. My family is equally as guilty now for joining the motorhome train. In addition I can say that when my dad and I go to the track we are often greeted positively with comments about third generation of racers in the family. That attribute seems to be rare today and overall we are not drawing in new people at a regular bases to our specific sport. Arbitrarily speaking each generation is unique and has different interest. I think we need to ensure the integrity of the sport is maintained but also find avenues to attract new people into the sport without placing such a high risk low reward outcome on the sport. I can tell you from the countless conversations I have had with my grandad, a Walley meant a lot more to him than it does to me at this point. I of course would love to have one and earn it the right way but it just doesn't have the same appeal today as it did 20 years ago.

Just a newer (2 years) class racers thoughts and opinion. Very proud to have transitioned into class racing and love class racing.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by ken robinson

In 2008 I forget how fast you needed to go to get HP. But if you could go 1.20 under in 2009 than you would have been 1.50 under in 2008. Just saying . And after the 3 tenth hit it seamed to kill the car count . The mineshaft rule and the 3 tenth hit just seamed like a way out , to not to give out HP to me at least .

Okay, I see where you're going.I really didn't notice it hurting much of anything though.

That was 12 years ago too. I just looked at St. Louis with 156 cars, and you'd have to look long and hard to find anyone who can't go 3 tenths under the current indexes.
Seems to me, if it's really supposed to be a performance eliminator, there has to be some give and take on both ends.. meaning lower the indexes X amount every few years and raise the triggers X amount to keep things balanced for the sake of progress.
Otherwise eventually, every time there's a heads up run , somebody's getting hp. Everyone else is de-tuned or ET dropping to avoid the trigger.
I know, some people want the hits...for the other combo in their class, but where will it end? With just more 1000' runs, I'd guess.
This is giving me a headache, I do know that much.

[Paul Precht]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Okay, I see where you're going.I really didn't notice it hurting much of anything though.

That was 12 years ago too. I just looked at St. Louis with 156 cars, and you'd have to look long and hard to find anyone who can't go 3 tenths under the current indexes.
.

3 tenths under at Numidia in July is 7 tenths under at the Dutch.

[Signman]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Okay, I see where you're going.I really didn't notice it hurting much of anything though.

That was 12 years ago too. I just looked at St. Louis with 156 cars, and you'd have to look long and hard to find anyone who can't go 3 tenths under the current indexes.
Seems to me, if it's really supposed to be a performance eliminator, there has to be some give and take on both ends.. meaning lower the indexes X amount every few years and raise the triggers X amount to keep things balanced for the sake of progress.
Otherwise eventually, every time there's a heads up run , somebody's getting hp. Everyone else is de-tuned or ET dropping to avoid the trigger.
I know, some people want the hits...for the other combo in their class, but where will it end? With just more 1000' runs, I'd guess.
This is giving me a headache, I do know that much.

I believe lowering the indexes actually influences racers to add the expensive enhancements to make HP

In 2009 came out with my stocker after building it from scratch for 5 years. I had some good people to talk to and massaged the car front to back. Engine and trans were quality but not what would be called state of the art. After reading and hearing as well as getting solid advice to not get disappointed if it couldn't run the index it did the first run by the end of the year could go -.90, was competitive and did some damage. 2010 the index dropped .3 was able to find another .10 with -.70 the best it would go.

Well after a few races the ladder was no longer friendly and became obvious a couple of faster cars were always setting up for and easy heads up. Got tired of trying to avoid them along with some looking down their nose at me. As Gino advised several times "opened my wallet". The car was pretty well massaged as I constantly worked on it and the tune another good comment was "Frank all you need HP".

So the Italian came out........

Would not have done all the expensive "updates" if the indexes were left alone, all that happened was those who were protecting their combination sped up. My old engine could go 300 runs not vary much in HP and need a basic freshen, the good engine wants attention after every season.
Won't regret what I learned and the good people met during the process though!!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Seems to me, if it's really supposed to be a performance eliminator, there has to be some give and take on both ends.. meaning lower the indexes X amount every few years and raise the triggers X amount to keep things balanced for the sake of progress.

If this is REALLY supposed to be a performance (based) eliminator then NHRA needs to have knowledgeable people in the right places to make absolutely certain that the rules (as written) are being followed! And no, not having qualified people in the right places is no excuse. They (NHRA) seems to have plenty of qualified people in place to tech the Pros who have far looser rules than we (S/SS) do. No letting things slide for certain combos (and certain people) and no turning a blind eye to certain "enhancements" (heads) for fear of being hit with a lawsuit.
Start enforcing the rules as written and watch things (cars) slow down.

[Mark Yacavone]

" Combine sticks and automatics"

"Eliminate half pound breaks"

I can think of as many problems with this as there are advantages.

For the advocates of these, what do you hope to accomplish, and what do you do about the inherent problems they create? ...and believe me there are many when you study the details.