The rumor of the day - Page 3

BobUnkefer · 09-21-2009, 01:12 PM

The rule is first OR worst.

That's why a red light gets trumped by a center line crossover or hitting of an outer wall (or crossing an outer line like E-Town).

Pretty sure that it wouldn't be a big change for Compulink to program into the system.

Could be interesting.

Unk

mopar jeff · 09-21-2009, 02:07 PM

I like it. Level the playing field a little more. Isn't that what bracket racing was intended to do anyway? I know there is plenty of heads up stuff too, but I think only the fast guys will be complaining. Not trying to piss anyone off, but just because you spend more money, you shouldn't get an advantage.

TGould · 09-21-2009, 02:08 PM

You "no change " guys are looking at this as a fast car vs slow car thing. This would apply any time there is a difference in dial no matter how small. Could well be 2 fast cars with so little difference in the dial you can hardly see it on the tree.

novassdude · 09-21-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

just when i thought it would never happen...
someone is considering a rule change for fairness !

jack mccarthy

i notice the negative posts are all from million dollar boys...
what do ya think bob shaw, ellis buth, stephenson, pohill... hey guys wake up.

I am far far from a million dollar boy. I also do not run a fast stocker. When I get back out it will be in G/sa or H/sa so in theory I should be for this. But it should be left alone If people don't like the rules of stock and super stock pick a different class and leave class racing alone.

bill dedman · 09-21-2009, 02:29 PM

BSA said, "this is just so stupid..it changes everything.. for no reason really..."

BSA, it doesn't change ANYTHING, until after both cars have launched, and their reaction times have been examined by the computer, which takes a micro-second. THEN, the lane with the worse infraction get the red light and the win light comes on in the opposite lane.

How does this change ANYTHING, much less, "EVERYTHING?" The red-lighting car still loses.

First off, it's vary rarely that the faster car goes red, and even if he does, it might be a smaller amount than if the first car goes red, so, the faster car wins, anyway.

As someone else pointed out, this is not necssarily about an M/SA car running an A/SA car; it works just as well if that M/SA car is running a W/SA car... but in reverse; the M/SA car is no longer the last car to leave.

It offers an advantage to NO ONE!

The "traditional" FIRST RED LIGHT LOSES system came about in the way that it did, because they didn't have the capability of assessing the two leaves, instantly, and awarding the win to the one with the less infraction in, 1963. So, we got 35+ years of this lopsided system that favors the second car to leave.

That is no longer the case. There's no logical reason to favor one car over another, now. The technology exists to implement this system.

When they started "breakouts," it was the same deal; first car to breakout lost.
They fixed that a long time ago.

Way past time to fix this, IMHO.

But, since it won't make NHRA a plugged-nickle, it probably won't ever happen.

art leong · 09-21-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

just when i thought it would never happen...
someone is considering a rule change for fairness !

jack mccarthy

i notice the negative posts are all from million dollar boys...
what do ya think bob shaw, ellis buth, stephenson, pohill... hey guys wake up.

Jack you forgot me the slowest of all Superstockers (by a bunch)
Personally I would like this change, but I built the car with the rules as they are . So either way I won't lose any SLEEP over it.

As far as the fasters cars saving their parts goes. How about my case. If I redlight it's over, I get to drive up the track, If the new rule comes to be, I'll have to run all out for as much as 5 seconds (330'). Instead of saving my parts.

bill dedman · 09-21-2009, 02:56 PM

Somebody said, "Take all the advantages of building a fast stocker away."

Where is it written that fast cars should have any advantage over slow cars?

I don't remember seeing that in any rulebook I have ever looked at (and, I've looked at them for a l-o-n-g time...)

There exist certain things that benefit fast cars (driving the stripe from behind, less dial-in change due to changing conditions, wind, etc.), and things that benefit slower cars (leaving on a "clean" tree, generally less traction problems, smaller initial expense), but those are all things that happen naturally, not as a result of a deliberate rule implimentation.

NHRA has always gone to GREAT LENGTHS to ensure parity by whatever methods the deemed appropriate, including teardown-based inspections where cars are disqualified for thousandths of an inch too much or too little.

That they would continue to utilize a system (FIRST RED LIGHT LOSES), after technology has been introduced that would enable them to institute a system that would eliminate the advantage given to one car, or another, is so inconsistent in its thinking as to be almost unbelieveable.

But, I forgot... it's NHRA.

CFM · 09-21-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbrace5

Thats what they need to do! Take all the advantages of building a fast stocker away. Cool, now we can all build wheel standing 4 door impala wagon 6 cylinders and really get the spectators to watch! NHRA would love to have us then!

That hurts Mark.

tim worner · 09-21-2009, 03:46 PM

Wish they would make it retroactive, I could get alot of races back.

Bill Howell · 09-21-2009, 04:29 PM

Maybe we could lobby for taking away the "Clean Tree" advantage of the slower car.

It seems like every change that is made, just brings out more people wanting other changes.

09-21-2009, 01:12 PM	#21
BobUnkefer Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 465 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day The rule is first OR worst. That's why a red light gets trumped by a center line crossover or hitting of an outer wall (or crossing an outer line like E-Town). Pretty sure that it wouldn't be a big change for Compulink to program into the system. Could be interesting. Unk Last edited by BobUnkefer; 09-21-2009 at 01:15 PM.

09-21-2009, 02:07 PM	#22
mopar jeff Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 219 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day I like it. Level the playing field a little more. Isn't that what bracket racing was intended to do anyway? I know there is plenty of heads up stuff too, but I think only the fast guys will be complaining. Not trying to piss anyone off, but just because you spend more money, you shouldn't get an advantage.

09-21-2009, 02:08 PM	#23
TGould Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaufort,SC Posts: 145 Likes: 18 Liked 32 Times in 6 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day You "no change " guys are looking at this as a fast car vs slow car thing. This would apply any time there is a difference in dial no matter how small. Could well be 2 fast cars with so little difference in the dial you can hardly see it on the tree.

09-21-2009, 02:29 PM	#25
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day BSA said, "this is just so stupid..it changes everything.. for no reason really..." BSA, it doesn't change ANYTHING, until after both cars have launched, and their reaction times have been examined by the computer, which takes a micro-second. THEN, the lane with the worse infraction get the red light and the win light comes on in the opposite lane. How does this change ANYTHING, much less, "EVERYTHING?" The red-lighting car still loses. First off, it's vary rarely that the faster car goes red, and even if he does, it might be a smaller amount than if the first car goes red, so, the faster car wins, anyway. As someone else pointed out, this is not necssarily about an M/SA car running an A/SA car; it works just as well if that M/SA car is running a W/SA car... but in reverse; the M/SA car is no longer the last car to leave. It offers an advantage to NO ONE! The "traditional" FIRST RED LIGHT LOSES system came about in the way that it did, because they didn't have the capability of assessing the two leaves, instantly, and awarding the win to the one with the less infraction in, 1963. So, we got 35+ years of this lopsided system that favors the second car to leave. That is no longer the case. There's no logical reason to favor one car over another, now. The technology exists to implement this system. When they started "breakouts," it was the same deal; first car to breakout lost. They fixed that a long time ago. Way past time to fix this, IMHO. But, since it won't make NHRA a plugged-nickle, it probably won't ever happen. __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 09-21-2009 at 02:32 PM.

09-21-2009, 02:56 PM	#27
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day Somebody said, "Take all the advantages of building a fast stocker away." Where is it written that fast cars should have any advantage over slow cars? I don't remember seeing that in any rulebook I have ever looked at (and, I've looked at them for a l-o-n-g time...) There exist certain things that benefit fast cars (driving the stripe from behind, less dial-in change due to changing conditions, wind, etc.), and things that benefit slower cars (leaving on a "clean" tree, generally less traction problems, smaller initial expense), but those are all things that happen naturally, not as a result of a deliberate rule implimentation. NHRA has always gone to GREAT LENGTHS to ensure parity by whatever methods the deemed appropriate, including teardown-based inspections where cars are disqualified for thousandths of an inch too much or too little. That they would continue to utilize a system (FIRST RED LIGHT LOSES), after technology has been introduced that would enable them to institute a system that would eliminate the advantage given to one car, or another, is so inconsistent in its thinking as to be almost unbelieveable. But, I forgot... it's NHRA. __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 09-21-2009 at 11:01 PM.

09-21-2009, 03:46 PM	#29
tim worner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: duncannon Posts: 837 Likes: 14 Liked 126 Times in 20 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day Wish they would make it retroactive, I could get alot of races back. __________________ Tim Worner SS 1747

09-21-2009, 04:29 PM	#30
Bill Howell Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Aiken, SC Posts: 315 Likes: 28 Liked 218 Times in 61 Posts	Re: The rumor of the day Maybe we could lobby for taking away the "Clean Tree" advantage of the slower car. It seems like every change that is made, just brings out more people wanting other changes.