Aftermarket Cranks - Page 2

CaptCobrajet · 11-18-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treessavoy

OK, you are obviously total ignorant about Mopar big blocks. First, the 400 and 440 are completely different physical sizes easily seen by just looking at them; second, there's a big raised pad on the front of a 440 that says: 440, the 400 has a machined pad on the left side of the block that says: 400, both have the block size cast on the side of the block. Different blocks, different sizes and clearly identified. Who would want to give up 40 inches?

JimR

Jim, not TOTALLY ignorant, but maybe somewhat ignorant. I'm not beating up on 440's in general. I actually like them. Also not interested in calling anyone out, but it is doable, and has been done.......not to give up inches, but to shorten the C/H on the piston. Lately, there is a spec for C/H, so it would be caught if a rod and piston were pulled now anyway. I was just responding to the consistent comments by Mr. Hill on the Ford FE. I only used the 440 as an example because that happens to be what Larry runs, and I'm sure his stuff is completely legal. Ignorant yes, just not totally ignorant.

Blair Patrick

Larry Hill · 11-18-2012, 09:35 PM

..

Jeff Lee · 11-18-2012, 10:18 PM

Ahmmm....For whatever it's worth the 413 & 426 wedge also shares the 440 block structure.

Paul Precht · 11-18-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Ahmmm....For whatever it's worth the 413 & 426 wedge also shares the 440 block structure.

Yes but the Maxi mani doesn't fit a low block (400) without obvious mods but the Edelbrock 383 6 Pak mani fits a 400 block just fine and it's been done. The 400 block is stronger and 25 lbs or so lighter plus the advantage of the lighter piston and rod.

jmantle · 11-18-2012, 10:47 PM

Larry, I thought your post was right on before it disappeared.

I just read the whole stock section in the new 2013 rulebook about a dozen times, didn't want to miss anything. Found the following,

"Any special equipment export kit
(superchargers, dealer-installed options, etc.) automatically
disqualifies car."

That should take care of the group 19 AMC stuff.

"Lightening of crankshaft other than normal balance job prohibited."

How can turning a 2.437 journal down to 2.200 not be considered lightening the crank?
That's almost 2 lbs.

Jim Mantle U/V/SA 6632

RJ Sledge · 11-19-2012, 01:04 PM

JimR

Wake up Buddy, the 400 block 440 Combo has been around for quite awhile, can't believe you haven't known about it. The Wizard might not be the smartest guy around, but I don't believe that "ignorant" is the correct definition for him. I would have to put him on a short list of most knowledge engine people, but what the hell do I know its just my opinion.

Larry.......Hello?....where'd you go....Larry? did we lose you?? LOL

2.437?

RJ

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

treessavoy · 11-19-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R J Sledge

JimR

Wake up Buddy, the 400 block 440 Combo has been around for quite awhile, can't believe you haven't known about it. The Wizard might not be the smartest guy around, but I don't believe that "ignorant" is the correct definition for him. I would have to put him on a short list of most knowledge engine people, but what the hell do I know its just my opinion.

Larry.......Hello?....where'd you go....Larry? did we lose you?? LOL

2.437?

RJ

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

RJ,

I'm sure he's smarter than me and I didn't mean he's stupid just ignorant of Mopar blocks. You can't make a 400 into a 440 and vice versa. Rods, cranks, pistons and intakes don't interchange. 400 and 383 are closer together and there is interchangeabilty. How would you get a 400 block out the 440 and still use stock pistons and vise versa and you can't make the blocks look the same on the outside?
I know bracket racers have been running the 451 for a long time but all of the Max wedge cars I've looked at had the raised block and as for 6 packs you still can't disguise a 400 for a 440 unless you grind off that giant pad on the front of the block.

JimR

Maybe I'm too honest for this game.

Michael K · 11-18-2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCobrajet

I guess no one runs a 400 block in a 440 combo in Stock either, right?

I have heard this claim before. Always wondered how the correct 440 intake manifold could possibly fit the 400?

Mike Crutchfield · 11-19-2012, 06:11 PM

Terry / Tom
Concerning STOCK
There is not an approved list yet for cranks. At first NHRA did not think it would be necessay for a list because the only thing they were changing from the orginal rule was, it could be a aftermarket instead of a factory crank. It still has to have the Stock Configuration and stock pin size minus .070 no matter what can be read into it. The rod rule could be a little misleading but the bottom line is, you must use the stock size and lenght rod for the application.
I have spoken with Bruce recently and ask if he could clarify more clearly the Rod and Crankshaft rule. He indicated that there could be a approved list and a claification if the misunderstanding of the rules presisted.
Basicly the rule change was not a re-write of the rule just an addition. The intent was to allow after market Cranks and rods in the same as STOCK configuration that could be stronger and safer.
Hope this help clear up any misunderstandings.

Thanks
Mike C

RJ Sledge · 11-19-2012, 07:54 PM

JimR

The Wizard was trying to tell you in his post, if you go back and re-read it he makes a comment about the difference in C/H of the piston. This is how its done and he also states that the only way to check C/H is with a piston and rod removal request (sic). Don't feel bad about being honest you are in the majority.

Larry

FYI 390/427 are not 3.980, they are 3.780 so the weight loss is only very slight and I don't have a clue about "change in polar moment of inertia" maybe polar movement of inertia is what you meant, anyway its way over my head. But from my 12th grade basic math class that I took for the 3d time I would guess that the weight difference would be about the same as a "popcorn fart" or maybe the same weight as a "gnats ***".

I believe that you are confused about the stroke of these motors and the rod pin size. Yes there would be a difference, but I doubt it could be measured. I may be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time.

And to answer your question of "why is the 390/427 allowed these rods", is because NHRA approved them 9 years ago and its a little late to be closing the barn door after the cows are already out.

Luv ya Bro!!

RJ

11-18-2012, 09:35 PM	#2
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,640 Likes: 1,940 Liked 10,714 Times in 2,230 Posts	Re: Aftermarket Cranks .. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817 Last edited by Larry Hill; 11-18-2012 at 09:55 PM.

11-18-2012, 10:18 PM	#3
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Aftermarket Cranks Ahmmm....For whatever it's worth the 413 & 426 wedge also shares the 440 block structure. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

11-18-2012, 10:47 PM	#5
jmantle Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Black Creek, BC Canada Posts: 331 Likes: 79 Liked 172 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Aftermarket Cranks Larry, I thought your post was right on before it disappeared. I just read the whole stock section in the new 2013 rulebook about a dozen times, didn't want to miss anything. Found the following, "Any special equipment export kit (superchargers, dealer-installed options, etc.) automatically disqualifies car." That should take care of the group 19 AMC stuff. "Lightening of crankshaft other than normal balance job prohibited." How can turning a 2.437 journal down to 2.200 not be considered lightening the crank? That's almost 2 lbs. Jim Mantle U/V/SA 6632

11-19-2012, 01:04 PM	#6
RJ Sledge Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 783 Likes: 502 Liked 288 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Aftermarket Cranks JimR Wake up Buddy, the 400 block 440 Combo has been around for quite awhile, can't believe you haven't known about it. The Wizard might not be the smartest guy around, but I don't believe that "ignorant" is the correct definition for him. I would have to put him on a short list of most knowledge engine people, but what the hell do I know its just my opinion. Larry.......Hello?....where'd you go....Larry? did we lose you?? LOL 2.437? RJ Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

11-19-2012, 06:11 PM	#9
Mike Crutchfield Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 84 Likes: 3 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Aftermarket Cranks Terry / Tom Concerning STOCK There is not an approved list yet for cranks. At first NHRA did not think it would be necessay for a list because the only thing they were changing from the orginal rule was, it could be a aftermarket instead of a factory crank. It still has to have the Stock Configuration and stock pin size minus .070 no matter what can be read into it. The rod rule could be a little misleading but the bottom line is, you must use the stock size and lenght rod for the application. I have spoken with Bruce recently and ask if he could clarify more clearly the Rod and Crankshaft rule. He indicated that there could be a approved list and a claification if the misunderstanding of the rules presisted. Basicly the rule change was not a re-write of the rule just an addition. The intent was to allow after market Cranks and rods in the same as STOCK configuration that could be stronger and safer. Hope this help clear up any misunderstandings. Thanks Mike C

11-19-2012, 07:54 PM	#10
RJ Sledge Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 783 Likes: 502 Liked 288 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Aftermarket Cranks JimR The Wizard was trying to tell you in his post, if you go back and re-read it he makes a comment about the difference in C/H of the piston. This is how its done and he also states that the only way to check C/H is with a piston and rod removal request (sic). Don't feel bad about being honest you are in the majority. Larry FYI 390/427 are not 3.980, they are 3.780 so the weight loss is only very slight and I don't have a clue about "change in polar moment of inertia" maybe polar movement of inertia is what you meant, anyway its way over my head. But from my 12th grade basic math class that I took for the 3d time I would guess that the weight difference would be about the same as a "popcorn fart" or maybe the same weight as a "gnats ***". I believe that you are confused about the stroke of these motors and the rod pin size. Yes there would be a difference, but I doubt it could be measured. I may be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time. And to answer your question of "why is the 390/427 allowed these rods", is because NHRA approved them 9 years ago and its a little late to be closing the barn door after the cows are already out. Luv ya Bro!! RJ